Do you believe in "global warming?" - Page 187 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #2791 of 2895 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 07:36 AM
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Plastic and other environmental issues are not climate.

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post #2792 of 2895 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 02:14 PM
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Thank you for your response. I know this is an explosive issue but with many many trillions of $ at stake it would be great if people would do some research and look at all sides of this issue. Don't take my word for it, do some honest searching and decide for yourself.
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post #2793 of 2895 (permalink) Old 08-06-2019, 09:27 PM
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I'm actually not sure. But experiencing heat waves the past couple of years makes me think that it is.

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post #2794 of 2895 (permalink) Old 08-07-2019, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by JessCan54 View Post
I'm actually not sure. But experiencing heat waves the past couple of years makes me think that it is.
Heat waves equal (tiny) fractional annual increases in global mean temperatures? Please explain.

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post #2795 of 2895 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 01:57 PM
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this is were we live.. there is no other home for us... why would you take the risk of soiling this place?the earth is not yours.. it belongs to ALL the children that will come after us..for many generations..
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post #2796 of 2895 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 04:13 PM
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You could at least include a pic of your bicycle......

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post #2797 of 2895 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 04:53 PM
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The thread title is wrong on all counts. We ALL agree that our home is warming, but the cause of it is the debate.

The title should be changed to: Do you believe CO2 is the cause of "global warming"?



My view, and surely we can all agree on this, is that the increase in CO2 volume is surely not helping the situation, even if the cause is the Sun's orbit, etc. And before you say it, yes CO2 is useful for plant life, but we are cutting it down so fast that it is not there enough anymore to consume the CO2, yet even more of it.
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post #2798 of 2895 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 07:52 PM
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"My view, and surely we can all agree on this, is that the increase in CO2 volume is surely not helping the situation, even if the cause is the Sun's orbit, etc. And before you say it, yes CO2 is useful for plant life, but we are cutting it down so fast that it is not there enough anymore to consume the CO2, yet even more of it.
Pete"

Sorry, as much as some would like everyone to agree, most do not.
Temps have gone up and down over the ages. Weather has changed wildly and people have been trying to predict the future of crops and food production since man began. Some cultures made offerings to various gods for favorable weather and as far as we know they had similar effect on weather as the currant crop of medicine men....


But please, do your part to save the planet. Sing cum-ba-ya and live carbon free.
Let all of the rest of us alone!
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post #2799 of 2895 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 01:38 PM
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You could at least include a pic of your bicycle......
o.k....mummm bike porn,,
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post #2800 of 2895 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 04:09 PM
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I do have a bicycle, but while alloy, not that flash. If I worked closer I'd ride it to work, weather permitting. Done this before and really enjoyed it.
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post #2801 of 2895 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 09:42 AM
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No Human Influence

South China Morning Post, August 11.
Report on a study by the Laboratory of Cenozoic Geology, and the Institute of Geology and Geophysics.
"Found no evidence of human influence on Northern China's warming winters."
And pointed out:
"Driving forces include the sun, the atmosphere, and its interaction with the oceans."
Which is what I was taught many decades ago.
Since then this theory has been confirmed by an immense accumulation of data.
This study out of China adds to the evidence.

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post #2802 of 2895 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Subtle View Post
South China Morning Post, August 11.
Report on a study by the Laboratory of Cenozoic Geology, and the Institute of Geology and Geophysics.
"Found no evidence of human influence on Northern China's warming winters."
And pointed out:
"Driving forces include the sun, the atmosphere, and its interaction with the oceans."
Which is what I was taught many decades ago.
Since then this theory has been confirmed by an immense accumulation of data.
This study out of China adds to the evidence.
Yes, same, same when I was in the Geology major at Occidental College. However, It doesn't fit the progressive left's agenda...climate change has to be controlled by big government, a world of no borders and one omniscient government, etc. etc.

The world without borders, one government concept is being adopted in varying degrees by the cultural Western World to our own peril. I don't believe China, Russia, N. Korea or others will give up on their self interests...and the theocratic Muslim governments have a one-world-view that differs significantly from that of Al Gore and George Soros'.
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post #2803 of 2895 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 02:40 PM
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But:

Why should a completely innocent child be disadvantaged by the utter randomness of where they were born?


And before you answer "it is that countries responsibility to look after it's citizens", which I of course agree with, it is hardly right that other countries people prejudice them for something they had absolutely no control over. None at all. "We" were simply lucky and born into wealthy and stable countries, but "we" had nothing to do with that. The United Nations needs to be de-corrupted and made useful and America and Russia's head pulled in so they stop using other countries and other people's lives as pawns in their political game to dominate the world's resources. If America and Russia, mainly, stopped this game in other countries; guess what?, many of our current refuges would be happy to stay and live in their stable and safe country. Syria is a perfect example ...

I have a son on the autism spectrum and I now know a heck of a lot about how people judge others, and it is very wrong (and yes before my son, I undoubtedly played the wrong game too). My son did not chose to be on the autism spectrum, he didn't even chose his parents, and yet people will cross streets and kids will tease him. Human beings are the lowest of the low when it comes to how they treat their fellow human beings, on this planet Earth that we ALL share ...

... and to return this post to being on topic; the same is happening with Global Warming. The rich and advantaged do not want to alter their lives, one bit, because it involves helping somebody other than themselves ... and they do not have the capacity to think of others (same with health). If they did, they would pay better wages and share their wealth (and not by tax dodging charities, but by reducing their profits).
Pete

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post #2804 of 2895 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 02:47 PM
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If you just look at this from the point of view that fossil fuels are a finite resource, you can see where we need to go. The earth may be able to replenish fossil fuels, but not on any timeline that humans would benefit from. We will deplete our fossil fuels one day.

The most intelligent solution then is to prepare for that day by developing an energy source that is capable of sustaining our needs on this planet. If we wait until our current primary energy source is completely depleted, we could end up in a situation where the next energy source is more difficult, if not impossible to develop. Beginning the process of research and develop while we still have our primary source is the best option. To fight against new, renewable energy is nothing more than supporting those that benefit the most from fossil fuels.

Step away from politics, see the problem, find the solution for the future.

Fossil fuels are the reason our lives are as good as they are. It is morally right to use fossil fuels because they provide a much much greater energy output, outside of nuclear power, than any other alternative source by far. Their benefits greatly out weigh their negatives in providing the most bang for the buck. It is morally right that over 1.5 billion people on earth have a chance to get themselves out of poverty and have access to RELIABLE and accessible energy for clean water, heat for their homes, etc. Big Wind (fart!) and Big Solar don't even enter into the energy picture. The land alone needed for these UNRELIABLE monstrosities boggles the mind. And we all benefit from fossil fuels.[/SIZE]
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post #2805 of 2895 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 04:11 PM
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... and to return this post to being on topic; the same is happening with Global Warming. The rich and advantaged do not want to alter their lives, one bit, because it involves helping somebody other than themselves ... and they do not have the capacity to think of others (same with health). If they did, they would pay better wages and share their wealth (and not by tax dodging charities, but by reducing their profits).
Pete
[/QUOTE]


Well, now that you have signaled your virtue, Pete, perhaps this might be a good time to to move our discussion to some practical considerations of exactly how we can go about making the world into the kind of egalitarian, environmentally sustainable place warmism dogmas say are are absolutely essential to maintain human life on spaceship earth.

I'm not going to enumerate the kinds of world-wide scale structural changes that have been widely discussed by the various international, national, and local governmental entities---all of whom are seeking power over the rest of us---because I'm pretty sure everyone reading and participating in this thread is well aware of what's being proposed. And if you aren't, you should be. If, however, for the sake of discussion we accept the do-or-die climate predictions, then the governmental planners are right: all earth societies both modern and traditional, are going to have to undergo radical restructuring if we are to even approach "sustainability".

Typically, most warmist discussions don't go very far beyond stressing the pressing need for "racial restructuring" but, reading between the lines, it's pretty clear that the only way to remake the planet into a place that's safe for our grandkids to establish some kind of police state to enforce environmental rules. Although done with the highest of intentions, it's still tyranny.

The reason for this is obvious: a substantial portion of the world's population, if not most, are simply not going to willingly alter their lifestyles to the degree warmist dogmas will demand.

Here in America, for instance, the problem of governance is particularly acute since, thanks to our 2nd. Amendment---which was rather conspicuously written as a way of allowing te citizenry to resist tyranny---the creation of a climate-saving police state might well prove difficult in a society were there are actually more weapons than there are people. And, honestly, I think the US is just the tip of the iceberg (pun intended). Just looking at what is happening right now in Hong Kong, I think we have a pretty graphic demonstration of just how people around the world value freedom and liberty. Those people on the streets there waiving the American flag are doing so on purpose.

So here's my point (and I'm directing this question to all of the participants on this thread). Let's dispense with the climate is/is not warming happy talk for a bit and get serious.

Although it would be wonderful if people willingly sacrificed for the greater good, that is highly unlikely. Therefore, some form of l tyranny is going to be necessary to save the planet. In order for that to happen, to make the world sustainable---in order to have a world for our grandchildren, halt the rise of sea-levels, halt the spread of deserts, make sure that our growing populations have enough food, etc., etc. . . . are you willing to support the kind of totalitarian police state societies that will be necessary to make all this happen?

Call me a revanchist-Luddite if you want but I tend to be very self-interested about personal freedom. The kind of liberty and freedom I enjoy in America came at a high cost and is much more important to me than someone else's sense of safety. I'm sorry, but it just is.
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Last edited by 180OUT; 08-13-2019 at 04:17 PM.
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