Do you believe in "global warming?" - Page 170 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #2536 of 2918 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Subtle View Post
Great Lakes ice cover extent:
I made a few notes, but don't know if March 9 was the maximum day, but it was close to it.
This year was 80.0% cover.
Same date in 2018 was 28.9%.
In 2017 it was 6.2%.
The later was low because of lingering effects from the El Nino warming, which is weather.
Numbers today are
8.2%, 5.8% and 0.4%.
Of interest is that geologically speaking, water in its solid state is called a mineral. With hexagonal crystallography.
The point is that the mineral only exists at below the freezing point at 32F.
Despite what the MSM insists, ice and snow are not caused by global warming
Arctic sea ice is at record low levels:

https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

What has happened is a lot of the cold air that is normally encapsulated in the Arctic by the polar vortex ended up drifting south, allowing the Northern U.S. and Southern Canada to become unusually cold for a period while the arctic became unusually warm. The amount of "missing" arctic sea ice dwarfs the additional ice in the great lakes.

This is the difference between global climate and weather. A cold winter in one spot does not mean the global aggregate is not warmer.

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post #2537 of 2918 (permalink) Old 04-18-2019, 09:01 AM
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People believe in environmentalism/climate change/global warming (or cooling)/warmism because they want to. In times of rapid change people experience status discontent when they find that the social norms that they use to validate their worldview and sense of self are no longer being honored by designated others. When their resulting anxiety and frustration is expressed collectively, causal factors are socially constructed which are then used to illuminate the source of the norms violations. In its various permutations, warmism is simply a metahphor used to express people's discontent and anxiety at not being as well respected as they once were. Not surprisingly, with the election of president Trump, demands for climate change laws (to say nothing about similar demands for more gun-control) predictably increased.

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post #2538 of 2918 (permalink) Old 05-07-2019, 12:44 PM
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CNN, who regularly trades in alarmism nonsense, including nonsense about the imminent inhabitability of Manhattan due to rising sea levels, just moved into waterfront offices at the Hudson Yards. I guess they really don't believe their own nonsense. Shocking. Seriously though, think about this for a moment. How can they ever report with their typical faux gravitas about the threat of rising sea levels again? At least with any actual self-awareness or ability to recognize irony? But they've neither of those, so I've answered my question.

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post #2539 of 2918 (permalink) Old 05-07-2019, 12:49 PM
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And al gore bought a beachfront mansion for the same reasons......

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post #2540 of 2918 (permalink) Old 05-07-2019, 02:11 PM
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CNN, who regularly trades in alarmism nonsense, including nonsense about the imminent inhabitability of Manhattan due to rising sea levels, just moved into waterfront offices at the Hudson Yards. I guess they really don't believe their own nonsense. Shocking. Seriously though, think about this for a moment. How can they ever report with their typical faux gravitas about the threat of rising sea levels again? At least with any actual self-awareness or ability to recognize irony? But they've neither of those, so I've answered my question.
I'm not a huge fan of CNN or any cable news, but I challenge you to find anything they've broadcast predicting that Manhattan will be uninhabitable during the term of their lease. By all means, attack people for what they've actually said, but the global warming deniers are charging at windmills here.
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post #2541 of 2918 (permalink) Old 05-07-2019, 04:14 PM
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I'm not a huge fan of CNN or any cable news, but I challenge you to find anything they've broadcast predicting that Manhattan will be uninhabitable during the term of their lease. By all means, attack people for what they've actually said, but the global warming deniers are charging at windmills here.
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post #2542 of 2918 (permalink) Old 05-07-2019, 04:40 PM
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I'm not a huge fan of CNN or any cable news, but I challenge you to find anything they've broadcast predicting that Manhattan will be uninhabitable during the term of their lease. By all means, attack people for what they've actually said, but the global warming deniers are charging at windmills here.
My comment was about CNN but...

Yes, Al Gore (who I am also not a big fan of) did predict portions of Manhattan would go under water if the Greenland ice caps melt - that hasn’t happened yet, though there are signs it’s on its way. But most large commercial leases are around 20 years, and I’ve seen no predictions from Gore or CNN indicating Manhattan would be underwater in anything line that time frame.

And even if it were true that sea level would eventually be above much of Manhattan, the real estate is so valuable that dykes would be constructed Dutch style even if it were well below sea level.

In any event- people here are still twisting words and hanging on the most inflamatory statments ad evidence that all scientific forecasts are wrong. I’ve many times in this thread encouraged going to primary sources and citing peer reviewed research.

Nobody can be bothered. They prefer to argue about CNN and Al Gore.

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post #2543 of 2918 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 06:34 AM
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So we all should quiver in fear about the world ending, but CNN should only worry if it is 'during their lease'.
Ha, ha. Good one!

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post #2544 of 2918 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 06:35 AM
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I'm not a huge fan of CNN or any cable news, but I challenge you to find anything they've broadcast predicting that Manhattan will be uninhabitable during the term of their lease. By all means, attack people for what they've actually said, but the global warming deniers are charging at windmills here.
This is way too easy. Of course CNN itself doesn't make predictions, even they aren't so deluded to imagine they are qualified to do that; what they do is aggressively promote a one-sided narrative, exclusively citing those who ARE deluded enough to imagine they are qualified to make dire predictions about climate change (here's a challenge; I challenge you to find a CNN piece treating a "skeptic"/realist like Judith Curry or Richard Lindzen sympathetically). Here is a list of alarmist CNN stories about rising sea levels from just from the last two years.

Oct 12, 2017: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/07/12/u...nge/index.html

Excerpt: "A new study lists the cities that are expected to be affected by higher sea levels...Almost 200 places may not be livable in the next 15 or 20 years, it says...Featuring places like New York, Boston, San Francisco and Miami, the list paints a grim picture of what our nation could look like if sea level predictions are accurate."

Oct 27, 2017: https://www-m.cnn.com/2017/10/27/us/....google.com%2F

"In the coming years, New York City might look less like a concrete jungle and more like a concrete swamp. The Big Apple could see a surge in significant floods every five years between 2030 and 2045 as an impact of climate change, according to a study published this week in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences."

March 7, 2018: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/03/07/u...ort/index.html

"As sea levels rise due to global warming, the kind of flooding currently experienced only in storms will happen during normal high tides. It's known as "sunny day flooding...By 2050, high-tide flooding would occur up to 130 days a year in cities along the Northeast Atlantic coastline..."

June 18, 2018: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/06/18/u...wxc/index.html

"As many as 311,000 homes in US coastal areas could be underwater within the next 30 years, according to a recent report by the Union of Concerned Scientists...Those startling numbers echo a 2017 report from the same group that said between 165 and 180 communities are projected to become "chronically inundated" in the next 15 to 20 years -- and between 270 and 360 in roughly the next 40 years...New York and New Jersey combined could lose nearly 400,000 homes and more than $200 billion in decreased property value."

April 22, 2019: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/04/22/w...scn/index.html

"Forty percent to 50% of the planet's population is in cities that are vulnerable to sea rise...Without serious efforts to curb carbon emissions and slow climate change, ice loss could become a much bigger problem for the country and for us."

There's a lot more I just got tired of copying and pasting. Clearly, according to this narrative, New York is potentially in a lot of trouble, as early as 2030! But the length of CNN's lease isn't really the point. For years we've been told that the fact that complying with the Kyoto Protocols and the Paris Accords, and building bird-chopping windmills, etc. won't actually accomplish any meaningful is beside the point, it's about setting an example, about leading the way...it's about gestures/optics. So what does CNN do while promoting every story about the pending climate disaster due to hit New York? They move their corporate offices to the banks of the Hudson River. Whatever that says about what they actually believe, it says a lot about what they preach.

Last note, speaking of windmills, if alarmists were sincere about their climate change fears they should be pushing hard for nuclear power, but with very few exceptions, none are. That tells me they are either insincere or not at all bright. Either is a reason not to listen to them. Personally, I'm not skeptical about the possibility of long-term effects of increased CO2 on polar ice -- CO2 has an influence where the atmosphere holds very little water vapor (not much anywhere else though) -- and think that a shift away from carbon emissions over time would be wise. The only way to do this realistically is to transition to nuclear power where we are now burning coal and gas, transitioning to gas as a bridge where we are now burning coal. I don't hear this from the climate alarmism lobby though. Instead it seems to be only about taxes and prohibitions on coal or gas powerplants, ICE transportation, number of children, etc. etc. IOW, a dystopian h*llhole if they ever got power and their way, all in the name of a hypothetical threat to future humans living along coastlines, a threat that moves so slowly that developers keep building along coastlines, insurance companies keep insuring new construction along coastlines, and corporations like CNN keep putting down stakes along coastlines. I'm just having a hard time seeing why I need to pay more taxes, give up ICE cars, and feel guilty for having kids, while Jeff Zucker enjoys his waterfront view from his luxury office suite (while no doubt commuting in some big black SUV).

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post #2545 of 2918 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 06:48 AM
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Here's the way I see it. Most of us "oldtimers" will not live to see it.

Doubting that ice, ice caps, glaciers, etc are NOT melting is just plain silly. Why on earth would anyone make this stuff up? I just don't get it.
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post #2546 of 2918 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 06:53 AM
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"Instead it seems to be only about taxes and prohibitions on coal or gas powerplants, ICE transportation, number of children, etc. etc."

Yes, if we will only knuckle under and give politicians our money and faith, they will save us. Then, in another 10-20 years, after there is no coastal flooding, they can tell us that all of the the freedoms of choice and money that we gave to them worked to save the planet, and they alone had the knowledge, foresight and intelligence to save us all. Brilliant and ambitious, at least as far as scams go.
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post #2547 of 2918 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 06:54 AM
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Good one.
As the saying goes, for too many governments "fear is a growth industry."
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post #2548 of 2918 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 07:43 AM
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Step away from the politics.

If you just look at this from the point of view that fossil fuels are a finite resource, you can see where we need to go. The earth may be able to replenish fossil fuels, but not on any timeline that humans would benefit from. We will deplete our fossil fuels one day.

The most intelligent solution then is to prepare for that day by developing an energy source that is capable of sustaining our needs on this planet. If we wait until our current primary energy source is completely depleted, we could end up in a situation where the next energy source is more difficult, if not impossible to develop. Beginning the process of research and develop while we still have our primary source is the best option. To fight against new, renewable energy is nothing more than supporting those that benefit the most from fossil fuels.

Step away from politics, see the problem, find the solution for the future.

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post #2549 of 2918 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 08:22 AM
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We would have no problem if all of the people telling the rest of us to change would do it themselves. I mean, if it is so dire, why are they still driving, using plastics, having children
Show us how well it works and we might follow....
in 12 years! ;^)
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post #2550 of 2918 (permalink) Old 05-08-2019, 09:06 AM
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The differences between dictators and leaders is simple to observe. Dictators order others to do things that they themselves do not really believe, and then do whatever they please. Leaders really believe what they tell others to do, and lead the way by example.

It would be interesting to get the life choices of all of the politicians and "scientists" who are heading up the Man-caused climate change agenda. My guess is that we would find that they do not practice what they preach. If you want to know the truth about anything, do not listen to what a man says, but look at what he does. You know the man by what he does.
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