Do you believe in "global warming?" - Page 165 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #2461 of 2918 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 12:22 PM
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Well said twolitrelover

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post #2462 of 2918 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by twoliterlover View Post
Gentlemen and Ladies, I have ignored this thread since it started. I wanted to actually see something that to me seemed to validate that we do have a problem caused by the extra carbon dioxide released into the atmosphere by burning of fossil fuels.

I have lived in Seattle since 1961 when I got out of the Army. I am not a spring chicken. This year I was astounded by the snow that came to Seattle and the problems in Eastern US. And I used to wonder what does more cold weather in the continental areas have to do with global warming.

But what fact that must now be faced is that the polar regions have more water and they have heated by 2 1/2 degrees and there is more melting ice to show it is warmer. Not much maybe, but in relation to the continental land masses which have heated only 1 1/2 degrees there have been serious consequences.

There is a phenomenon called the polar vortex, the swirling movement of air that us constantly being pushed further toward the poles by the fact that warmer are is further south. With that warmer northern area now the warm air over the continent is not keeping it pushed to the north. You have always heard of the famous "jet stream", the wind that comes off the Pacific and flows to the east. It is like a giant river of air. Even last year it would hit the west coast just a bit south of Vancouver British, Canada. NOW IT HAS BEEN HITTING AT THE CALIFORNIA / OREGON LINE AND FURTHER SOUTH.

How fast and how powerful is that jet stream? Well, a Boeing jet flying across the US to London caught it over Pennsylvania and picked up 278 miles per hour extra to set a record speed for the plane.

Frankly, it may be nice, if one is selling oil to the public, to claim that burning it only creates Co2 which is good for plants and the plants are our food. But the fact of the matter is that the balance is now out of whack. The indigenous natives of the Andes noticed the heating years ago, seeing changes that were never recorded as experienced before (and the Aztecs had a calendar going back 2,000 years or so). They tried to warn us. No body listened.

And if some people don't care about their children or their children's children, that's because they probably suspect that they personally can continue themselves and not see any change in their lifetime. But we must do something and that will be hard because the airplanes are probably the greatest contributors to the problem and we are a traveling generation.

Ostriches supposedly have always been laughed at because of the way they cover their heads in the sand when danger appears. We do worse than that. We have a president who picks for a prestigious place on a panel to study warming caused by burning of fossil fuels persons who are involved or paid for by coal and oil producers. He must have spent a great deal of time finding anybody in the scientific community not in agreement with the "inconvenient Fact" that our cars and planes and the use of coal are destroying the earth.

I am old. I do not expect the entire earth to burn up during the summers of my remaining life time, nor to freeze up solid in some soon coming winter. But I worry about my grandchildren and their children and their children's children. How will they be able to live.
Speaking of grandchildren, didn't Al Gore say about twelve years ago that his grandchildren might never see snow? Something ludicrous like that. In any event, he wasn't the only source of that gibberish. Now we're told that more and more snow confirms the "science" of AGW. Well, good science makes predictions and then tests those predictions. But the science behind AGW can't make accurate predictions; instead, like reading tea leaves, or the signs in the heavens, it looks at what's happening and then makes up an explanation to fit the (largely unforeseen) observations. Why can't accurate predictions be made? Because obviously, the climate is a very very complex thing; waaay too complex for imbeciles like Michael Mann to understand (or anyone, but Mann is a particularly noxious opportunist; it's ridiculous he's a spokesman for the "threat of AGW"; my cat is brighter than Michael Mann).

And re the president spending a great deal of time, supposedly, looking for like-minded scientists, it's really not that hard at all: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...global_warming

I respect your worry about your grandchildren and so on. I worry too, but about one hundred things more pressing that the incremental increase of an atmospheric trace gas, especially as the Indians and Chinese will be responsible for most of the world's CO2 emissions in the coming decades, and there's not anything any of us here can do about that. If the world was serious about this problem, if it is a problem, we'd be building nuclear power plants like mad, but we're not (there are a lot of meetings involving private jets though). Instead, hundreds of millions of $ worth of new beachfront construction continues to get financed and insured all over the world, all the time, because the people paying those very substantial amounts of money just don't really seem at all worried about the supposed threat of rising sea levels over the next 360 months. I'm not at all surprised.
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post #2463 of 2918 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 03:10 PM
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A whole 10 years ago, I wrote the following article for the editorial page of our local newspaper. Of course, the greenhouse theory (remember that one?) has been debunked. After that, it was global warming, the the 19 year pause debunked that one too. Now, it is climate change, and that is so nebulous that the people behind it can and do claim record snow falls are the fault of man. Actually, many scientists now state that we are headed for the much more serious ice age.

“I have noticed in the various pro and con letters related to man-caused global warming by CO2 emissions, that those who support the greenhouse theory use only alarmist sounding words, while those who question the validity of the theory use actual scientific facts. To further shed a factual perspective on the issue, it is important to understand just how much CO2 is in the atmosphere, and how much is caused by man.
How much CO2 is in our atmosphere? It is 35/1000 of 1%. That is called a trace amount. To put that into perspective, if you took off on a hike and walked one mile, which is 5,280 feet, breathing deeply of the normal atmospheric mixture of nitrogen, oxygen and argon that surrounds us, the entire CO2 component from all sources, both natural and man-made, would represent only the last 22 inches of your hike. That would be one step, which would be further shortened by the amount of CO2 actually caused by the activities of man, which is 3.225% of the total CO2. Natural causes account for 96.775% of all atmospheric CO2. The part attributable to human activities computes out to a distance on our mile hike of 7/10 of one inch. Would anyone even notice? It is a scientific fact that the total atmospheric CO2 has changed over time due to completely natural causes, and that the spread in these naturally occurring high and low levels in CO2 concentrations absolutely dwarf any small component contributed by human activities. Can any of you global warming experts explain in real scientific terms how this incredibly small man-made component has any effect on the global temperature?”

Given that the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is so very minute, a good analogy would be like people sitting and picnicking around a small pond on a nice day, and someone takes a rock and throws it into the middle of the pond. No matter how small the ripple becomes, it will get to all of the edges of the pond. Suddenly, someone yells “Everyone get away from the shore because a tsunami is about to kill you!” Ridiculous isn’t it. Then, while half of the people get scared and run from the shore, the person who incited the fear steals their picnic baskets. This is a never-ending story of how politicians operate.
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post #2464 of 2918 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 05:28 PM
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post #2465 of 2918 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 06:49 PM
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After being in a travelling job for 30 years I can say I have been China, India, and Indonesia (counted) 12 times...the most polluted places on this planet. They would never comply with USA standards anyway so the crazy New Green Deal means nothing. Leave it to the left wing in the USA to think we ALONE can change world climate......NOT....That would be like trying to institute earth quake prevention here in California...not gonna happen....
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post #2466 of 2918 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 10:23 PM
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OMG, have you not heard of lead by example.

Selfish, is what I'm reading ... Americans if it does not affect me, I'm fine with change ... as I go and get into my 8 litre truck that never carries anything or anybody else ...

Ever checked how many Indians and Chinese live?
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post #2467 of 2918 (permalink) Old 03-03-2019, 06:31 AM
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By all means, those alarmed by what they read should lead the way not contributing to the problem. Feel free to denigrate everyone who doesn't believe exactly as you do !
You know, the children told you what to do so you must follow their instructions. Let us know in 10 years how that works out so everyone else can see how right you are!

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post #2468 of 2918 (permalink) Old 03-03-2019, 11:31 AM
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Here is a link to a good article in Scientific American that concludes that AGM is not a near term worry. It is worth a read.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...r-a-long-time/
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post #2469 of 2918 (permalink) Old 03-03-2019, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 101/105guy View Post
By all means, those alarmed by what they read should lead the way not contributing to the problem. Feel free to denigrate everyone who doesn't believe exactly as you do !
What annoys me are 2 things:
1. Just because they don't, I won't attitude
2. Utter waste, and so many of American vehicles are very wasteful. I like cars, but you dont, heck the world doesn't, need these huge ute/trucks that do like 2mpg.

Yes I understand you guys have snow, large families but gee your vehicles, in many cases, are rehashed 1970 designs with little thought to fuel efficiency. Just because petrol is cheap in America does not give that country the right to use it all up, with a get stuffed to the rest of the world.

And I have not mentioned the pollution these out dated designs make.

So yeah it annoys me, just as it annoys me that my sister owns a supercharged 6.2 liter v8 family car ... if she had a penis I'd be calling it the small penis car ...

And yes it annoys me that Alfa make a pointless 505hp family car and 4wd too. That was cool in the 70s, not now.

Each to their own, yes; and no I do not want governments to restrict ownership, etc. but we do need to learn our actions affect others.
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post #2470 of 2918 (permalink) Old 03-03-2019, 02:02 PM
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I support inefficient vehicles requiring their owners to pay 2 or 3 times the annual road user charges. And that money to go to funding efficient energy technologies.
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post #2471 of 2918 (permalink) Old 03-04-2019, 05:33 AM
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"1. Just because they don't, I won't attitude"

But we are doing many things and have been for many years. We've transitioning away from coal to natural gas, in addition to already-existing hydroelectric and nuclear. Cars are becoming more and more fuel efficient. Homes and commercial buildings are being built to standards which require greater thermal efficiency. We are planting trees and doing other things to increase the number of plants.

Look at where we were in the '60s and early '70s with the polluted streams and LA smog, those just being the tip of the iceberg. It's ridiculous to me that the end of the world apocalyptic arm waving is increasing rather than decreasing; we are so much cleaner and more energy efficient than we (the U.S. that is) used to be, and we continue to move in that direction.

All that said, if the U.S. magically went to zero CO2 emissions, it still wouldn't be enough to avoid doomsday according to the math of the alarmists.

p.s. I heard this morning that 21 11 year-olds are suing the U.S. gov't for not doing enough to fight climate change. One was interviewed and she was actually saying that if we do nothing the world will be uninhabitable for her generation. Good grief. But at least she's got the excuse she's young, not so adults saying the same things. I love these critiques from Patrick Moore, co-founder of Greanpeace, no less.

https://www.ccn.com/environmentalist...green-new-deal
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post #2472 of 2918 (permalink) Old 03-04-2019, 06:09 AM
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Rutlefan, I loved the exchange between Moore and AOC. It made me laugh while drinking my morning coffee, which almost came out my nose. LOL Thanks for posting the link. Something tells me that AOC will be called PLT from now on.
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post #2473 of 2918 (permalink) Old 03-04-2019, 07:35 AM
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Great article featuring the heroic (arguably, in this political climate) Judith Curry: https://www.city-journal.org/global-warming

Polar bears were mentioned. Like disappearing snow, disappearing polar bears was a common theme ten years ago. It seemed every article about AGW featured a photo of a distressed polar bear, haplessly looking for ice that wasn't breaking apart. Truth is, polar bears are more numerous than ever (than fifty years ago at least) and are doing fine with regards to the climate; if polar bears are in any trouble, as Curry point out, human encroachment is the real concern.

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post #2474 of 2918 (permalink) Old 03-04-2019, 07:59 AM
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Plenty of ice on the Great Lakes, should polar bears need more area to roam.
Numbers from NOAA that have not been altered for convenience:
Ice Cover Extent:
March 1
This year at 71.3%.
Same date in 2018 it was 32.5%.
In 2017 it was 4.5%.
Of course, 2017 was still warm from the huge El Nino of 2016.
Which was a weather event.
The service does not provide earlier dates.

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post #2475 of 2918 (permalink) Old 03-04-2019, 08:19 AM
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OMG, have you not heard of lead by example.

Not when it involves transformational government intrusion involving coercive lifestyle changes designed to reduce individual liberty and freedom---all in the name of "serving the greater good". Not that you'll care to read it, Pete, but F.A. Hayek does a pretty good job of laying our why this is always---moral imperatives notwithstanding---a very bad idea in The Road To Surfdom. For me, it's just a simple case of knowing that once freedom and liberty are gone, they're gone forever. There's a reason warmism in its various iterations always focuses on controlling lifestyles and it has very little to do with it getting warmer or colder or . . .whatever . . . Frankly, and I say this with a sense of complete hedonism---my liberty and freedom is worth more to me than your need to feel safe and comfortable.
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