Do you believe in "global warming?" - Page 164 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #2446 of 2918 (permalink) Old 02-13-2019, 08:07 PM
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The main thing is:
Did you review the charts showing temperature history?
Yes.

The issue is though, we humans need a particular narrow relatively range of temperature to live/survive, plus we need "good" weather also. This is not a destruction of the earth issue. If, and yes I understand it is a huge if, especially after reading Jo Nova's thoughts, we do end up altering the temperature more than she thinks, future life will be interesting/challenging.

What we don't actually "need" is oil and coal. Oil and coal is not like air and water. Thankfully there are now alternatives. Some better than others. Oil and coal producers will want us to think otherwise.

But Jo's temperature prediction based on CO2 volume has made me a little more hopeful that I will be able to enjoy my GTV longer. Still would replace the Vitz with an electric car if I could.

I do have to admit, even though I'm car obsessed, I find lots of negatives with the oil and coal industry. They really make and leave a mess
Pete

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post #2447 of 2918 (permalink) Old 02-13-2019, 09:09 PM
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What we don't actually "need" is oil and coal. Oil and coal is not like air and water. Thankfully there are now alternatives. Some better than others. Oil and coal producers will want us to think otherwise.
Pete, oil touches everything in our lives, everything. We can't do without it until we find a stable plentiful supply of something else.

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post #2448 of 2918 (permalink) Old 02-13-2019, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
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What we don't actually "need" is oil and coal. Oil and coal is not like air and water. Thankfully there are now alternatives. Some better than others. Oil and coal producers will want us to think otherwise.
Pete, oil touches everything in our lives, everything. We can't do without it until we find a stable plentiful supply of something else.
Well we are getting there, and don't need it to fuel our transport anymore. Would help if governments encouraged ... instead some (Australia in particular) are in bed with the coal industry.

Of course we dont need to stop all use of oil, but a massive reduction would be good IMO. Spread the wealth around.

Btw: I've just realised that Jo Nova's comments could indeed be swayed by the industries that have supported her, but she is being clever. Instead of upsetting other scientists by completely denying the link between CO2 and warming, she is trying to get us to believe the impact will be not as drastic.

Basically we cannot believe anybody ... 😞. I tend to believe the oil industry has more to loose than the climate believers. Exaggeration to make a point though, is very annoying!
Pete

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post #2449 of 2918 (permalink) Old 02-14-2019, 07:46 AM
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Pete
In science it is best to review the theory, review the data and to review the logic.
And then form your own conclusions.
Ian Plimer is Prof. Emeritus, Geology in Australia.
Earned many awards and honors in his subject.
A few years ago he published:
"Telling Lies For God--Reason VS Creationism"

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post #2450 of 2918 (permalink) Old 02-14-2019, 11:27 AM
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Pete
In science it is best to review the theory, review the data and to review the logic.
And then form your own conclusions.
I think that is good practice for all things in life

I think I'll just keep driving my efficient little Vitz, recycle and reduce the amount of rubbish my family produce and energy we consume.
Pete

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post #2451 of 2918 (permalink) Old 02-20-2019, 08:15 AM
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Some Data

Ice Cover Great Lakes:
Today's posting is at 66.1%.
Same date in 2018 was 42.2%.
In 2017 it was 8.0%.
Snow Cover North America:
Is at 15.5 times 10 to the 6th square kilometers.
The high-side of the standard deviation band for this day is at the 14 level.

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post #2452 of 2918 (permalink) Old 02-20-2019, 08:30 AM
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So . . . does that mean it's gonna get better before it gets worser? Is it gonna stay the same and then get worser later on? Are we really doomed? Wouldn't it help just a little bit if we all stopped driving around so much? Do we really need to have air-conditioning? //sarc//
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post #2453 of 2918 (permalink) Old 02-20-2019, 08:55 AM
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Snow Cover Extent for Northern Hemisphere:
Right at the high-side of the standard deviation band.
Let's call it a "normal" high.

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post #2454 of 2918 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 07:37 PM
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And you confuse weather with world climate changes as usual, lol.

Ruined crops, salty soil: How rising seas are poisoning North Carolina’s farmland. As salt crystals rise out of the mud and make the soil sparkle in the sunlight, once-rich coastal land is turning barren. The trend is expected to worsen as the world continues to warm. By Sarah Kaplan | Photos by Eamon Queeney for The Post

And,

Fish populations are declining as oceans warm, putting a key source of food and income at risk for millions of people around the world, according to new research published Thursday. The world is losing fish to eat as oceans warm, new study finds. The study found that the amount of seafood that humans could sustainably harvest from a wide range of species shrank by 4.1 percent from 1930 to 2010, a casualty of human-caused climate change. The new findings, which separate the effects of global warming from other factors like overfishing, suggest that climate change is already having a serious effect on seafood. “That 4 percent decline sounds small, but it’s 1.4 million metric tons of fish from 1930 to 2010,” said Chris Free, lead author of the study, which appears in the journal Science.

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post #2455 of 2918 (permalink) Old 03-01-2019, 08:10 PM
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It's all B.S. I live directly on San Francisco Bay with a private boat dock for 40 years and study tide charts daily ...Nothing has changed here. In fact it is one of the coldest California winters ever. NO sea level change here.
Unfortunately the left wing thinks suckers are born by the minute...
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post #2456 of 2918 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 05:26 AM
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Climate change is cyclical. It has to be. There are many, many traces of communities under the waters off of Japan, South America, between England and France and so-on. How did they get there? Did someone actually go out and build a community under the water hundreds or thousands of years ago? Why would anyone do that? Or, possibly, water levels were much lower a few thousand years ago, which kind of shoots down the theory of sudden climatic change. On another note: after a large earthquake in the area of Bolivia, revealed large, open pockets under the mantle, at around 660km underneath the crust, large enough to hold mountains larger than anything above the surface. Fascinating, eh? So, large pockets of "empty" space (maybe water filled?) under the crust. Water, as you know, always flows downwards. So, if a land mass were to sink down into a cavity, the water underneath would flow up and cause, say, a flood? If this water is heated, would that not affect ocean temperatures and subsequently, the masses of ice under the water line? I don't know all of the answers but I am certain that the politicians trying to yank carbon-tax dollars out of my *** for don't know squat.
One more quick point regarding governments and conflicted interest in the gas and oil industry. They (governments) claim that a gradual shift has to take place to prevent mass job loss, partly true, but the real shift won't take hold until the folks that control the industry are convinced they will make more $$$ as a result of the shift. Probably from government grants and tax breaks so who is really paying the price?
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post #2457 of 2918 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 06:09 AM
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Yes climate change has been cyclical, forced by periodic changes in our solar system.
Atmospheric concentrations of CO2 provide very little heat capture. And has nothing to do with the major changes in climate from cooling to warming.
As for communities now below sea level, such levels have increased by more than 300 feet on the current interglacial that has run for some 12,000 years.
But this is not the case everywhere. Up the coast of British Columbia the land has been rising for the period and there is evidence of communities, some 10,000 years old slightly above the current sea level. As the huge ice sheets melted they no longer depressed the Earth's surface.
As to large "open pockets of empty space" at depth, you might want to read about continental drift, subduction zones and volcanoes.
Overall heat flow from the Earth's depth is very low, relative to that which comes from the Sun.
The rock that forms the sea floor has a lot of water and CO2 in it as it approaches the subduction zone. But by that time a lot of the CO2 has gone into the ocean. Water that remains in the very hot rock that feeds an active volcano causes the spectacular eruptions. Some of which have been very spectacular.
The understanding of the geology has advanced considerably over the last 50 years,

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post #2458 of 2918 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 09:32 AM
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All research done by different teams show that the world is closing in on irreversible climate temperature rise unless we are able to reduce climate gas emissions. There is no debate about this any longer! What is debated is why we let profit and jobs be more important than climate control, because if it gets out of hand it will be so expensive that the profit and life as we know it will go down the drain!

Anyway while US puts a coal industry lobbyist in the control of the Environment Protection Agency(EPA) thats a"good move" for whom?! Will he be less coal industry lobbyist as leader of the EPA?

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/28/p...ion/index.html

Here the young people urge the world politicians to take responsibility and solve the problem of reducing pollution and still have growth in economy. They say they do their best, but the youth say we are facing big problems! Well, they have read the reasearch also!

Here 16 years old school girl Greta givng an adress to the most powerful economic leaders at this years meeting at Davos- World Economic Forum, urging them to act, because time is running out, 12 years are estimated from research and in that time they(the youth) will not reach to get into posisitons to do anything about the problem. As this 16 years old girl says, even 6 years old kids understand the concept of heating up climate change, why cant grown ups do that also?

Now hear this from the future generation!



G.

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post #2459 of 2918 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 11:09 AM
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Lots of debate still going on.....
Each should believe what they want and live how they wish. Just don't demand that we all have to suffer others false ideas...
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post #2460 of 2918 (permalink) Old 03-02-2019, 11:42 AM
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Unhappy Winters in US affected by polar warming

Gentlemen and Ladies, I have ignored this thread since it started. I wanted to actually see something that to me seemed to validate that we do have a problem caused by the extra carbon dioxide released into the atmosphere by burning of fossil fuels.

I have lived in Seattle since 1961 when I got out of the Army. I am not a spring chicken. This year I was astounded by the snow that came to Seattle and the problems in Eastern US. And I used to wonder what does more cold weather in the continental areas have to do with global warming.

But what fact that must now be faced is that the polar regions have more water and they have heated by 2 1/2 degrees and there is more melting ice to show it is warmer. Not much maybe, but in relation to the continental land masses which have heated only 1 1/2 degrees there have been serious consequences.

There is a phenomenon called the polar vortex, the swirling movement of air that us constantly being pushed further toward the poles by the fact that warmer are is further south. With that warmer northern area now the warm air over the continent is not keeping it pushed to the north. You have always heard of the famous "jet stream", the wind that comes off the Pacific and flows to the east. It is like a giant river of air. Even last year it would hit the west coast just a bit south of Vancouver British, Canada. NOW IT HAS BEEN HITTING AT THE CALIFORNIA / OREGON LINE AND FURTHER SOUTH.

How fast and how powerful is that jet stream? Well, a Boeing jet flying across the US to London caught it over Pennsylvania and picked up 278 miles per hour extra to set a record speed for the plane.

Frankly, it may be nice, if one is selling oil to the public, to claim that burning it only creates Co2 which is good for plants and the plants are our food. But the fact of the matter is that the balance is now out of whack. The indigenous natives of the Andes noticed the heating years ago, seeing changes that were never recorded as experienced before (and the Aztecs had a calendar going back 2,000 years or so). They tried to warn us. No body listened.

And if some people don't care about their children or their children's children, that's because they probably suspect that they personally can continue themselves and not see any change in their lifetime. But we must do something and that will be hard because the airplanes are probably the greatest contributors to the problem and we are a traveling generation.

Ostriches supposedly have always been laughed at because of the way they cover their heads in the sand when danger appears. We do worse than that. We have a president who picks for a prestigious place on a panel to study warming caused by burning of fossil fuels persons who are involved or paid for by coal and oil producers. He must have spent a great deal of time finding anybody in the scientific community not in agreement with the "inconvenient Fact" that our cars and planes and the use of coal are destroying the earth.

I am old. I do not expect the entire earth to burn up during the summers of my remaining life time, nor to freeze up solid in some soon coming winter. But I worry about my grandchildren and their children and their children's children. How will they be able to live.

[B]JAY NUXOLL [/B][EMAIL="
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