Do you believe in "global warming?" - Page 163 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #2431 of 2918 (permalink) Old 02-13-2019, 08:43 AM
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There is nothing more unscientific than using the terms "settled science" and "most scientists agree".....
Just shows how little some know about how science works!
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post #2432 of 2918 (permalink) Old 02-13-2019, 01:06 PM
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Questions answered for the objectors. Several decades of NASA satellite observations on Earth climate and Developments.

All questions, proofs, consensus of reasearh is collected here. Nice basis for science based opinions!

https://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus/

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post #2433 of 2918 (permalink) Old 02-13-2019, 01:18 PM
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Another one of the altered data series.

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post #2434 of 2918 (permalink) Old 02-13-2019, 01:23 PM
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Yes, I'm sure that this idea of global warming is a giant lie, just like the one that man visited the moon and brought back samples.

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post #2435 of 2918 (permalink) Old 02-13-2019, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subtle View Post
Another one of the altered data series.
Surely you jest?

Otherwise not only are you challenging that man has caused global warming, but now the fact that the globe is warming. I thought with your previous posts you accepted it was warming due to cycles as the Earth has had in the past?
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post #2436 of 2918 (permalink) Old 02-13-2019, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ossodiseppia View Post
Yes, I'm sure that this idea of global warming is a giant lie, just like the one that man visited the moon and brought back samples.
LOL

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post #2437 of 2918 (permalink) Old 02-13-2019, 03:31 PM
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Some Geology

Now this is a temperature chart!

http://carbon-sense.com/wp-content/u...-sea-level.png

As I've been posting it has been warming for some 22,000 years, but it was warmer a number times before now.
Warming since the Little Ice Age ended in the mid 1800s has been V. beneficial, as has increasing concentrations of atmospheric CO2.

Anyone is welcome to explain the changes over the length of the chart.

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post #2438 of 2918 (permalink) Old 02-13-2019, 03:38 PM
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As a physicist, who is restoring a poor Alfa, I offer only the following in regards to anthroprogenic global warming:

Rust requires three chemicals to form: iron, oxygen, and water.

iron + water + oxygen → hydrated iron(III) oxide

This is an example of an electrochemical reaction and corrosion. Two distinct electrochemical reactions occur:

There is anodic dissolution or oxidation of iron going into aqueous (water) solution:

2Fe → 2Fe2+ + 4e-

Cathodic reduction of oxygen that is dissolved into water also occurs:

O2 + 2H2O + 4e- → 4OH-

The iron ion and the hydroxide ion react to form iron hydroxide:

2Fe2+ + 4OH- → 2Fe(OH)2

The iron oxide reacts with oxygen to yield red rust, Fe2O3.H2O

THIS IS THE REAL ENEMY!!!
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post #2439 of 2918 (permalink) Old 02-13-2019, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subtle View Post
Now this is a temperature chart!

http://carbon-sense.com/wp-content/u...-sea-level.png

As I've been posting it has been warming for some 22,000 years, but it was warmer a number times before now.
Warming since the Little Ice Age ended in the mid 1800s has been V. beneficial, as has increasing concentrations of atmospheric CO2.

Anyone is welcome to explain the changes over the length of the chart.
I get a "Sorry, no posts matched your criteria." response ...

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post #2440 of 2918 (permalink) Old 02-13-2019, 03:51 PM
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I don't doubt the earth has warmed and cooled more times that I can count. After all, the earth is 4.3 billion years old or is that not something that folks believe? Anywho, yes the earth is warming. But, can't some of the nay sayers accept that the industrial revolution has contributed to it and sped it up a wee bit? Global warming is not man made. However, man has contributed to the rate of warming.
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post #2441 of 2918 (permalink) Old 02-13-2019, 03:55 PM
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Sorry Subtle, that site "The Carbon Sense Coalition" can be immediately discredited. The chairman is the director of Stanmore Coal. Australia is heavily influenced by the coal industry, and many political decisions right or wrong come from there. This is why Australia is slow on reacting to global warming, and also many environmentally friendly inventions inventors have left, for America (I believe) to set up their companies and move forward. In fact Australia (and New Zealand), when being honest and I lived their for 20 years, is incredibly backwards in regards to sourcing energy. A country that is always bathed in sunlight, does not, as far as I know, have a single solar farm!

Mr Viv Forbes:
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Originally Posted by https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Viv_Forbes
When long-serving coal industry director Mr Forbes isn't advising to organisations spreading misinformation on climate science, he is serving as a director at coal export business Stanmore Coal. [1]
As I've said until I'm almost blue in the face, the oil and coal industry, just like the pesticide, flurocarbon, cigarette manufacturers have already done and continue to do (in the case of pesticides), will spend many $'s to support their future profits. In every case, consumer health is very low on their consideration, just as it has been proven to be in the auto industry.

Industry cannot be self regulating. While I know many, especially those born or living in North America, like to worry themselves silly about over controlling governments taking away free choice, there is very much a need for a body to regulate industry. Look at the mess lack of Banking regulation did to the world's, and particularly, America's economy with sub-prime lending. Unfortunately you cannot sit back and believe industry will do the right thing. Industry exists to make profits for the many owners. There is no other reason.

The great thing about governments, and yes it is like this in America and Canada too thanks to democracies, is you (once you become a legal adult) can vote. This means if you are uncomfortable with their direction, you can chuck them out. We absolutely cannot do that to industry, without government help.

If you live under a democracy, the debate and fear of authoritarian governments is utterly mute, and yet particularly Americans (from where I sit) like to bleat on about it ... and I guess in many cases, not vote! Utterly amazing. They should IMO, be sent Saudi Arabia, etc. to experience what the term authoritarian government really means.
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Last edited by PSk; 02-13-2019 at 04:23 PM.
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post #2442 of 2918 (permalink) Old 02-13-2019, 04:55 PM
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Debates are rarely "utterly mute".

To bad that chart did not come up. The graphics and citations were good.
Fortunately, I found one at 10,000 years and even longer by a highly regarded researcher Jo Nova.
Just Google:

65 million years of temperature swings

Viv Forbes got in touch with me before Christmas for some cartoons and articles for his site "Saltbush", but they were too North American for his Australian interests.

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post #2443 of 2918 (permalink) Old 02-13-2019, 06:11 PM
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Joanne Nova believes in human generated climate change or global warming, just not with the catastrophic projections:
Quote:
Originally Posted by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joanne_Nova
...carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas and that adding more to it will warm the planet, yes, absolutely, that's all well proven solid science known for years, yes. I have no disagreement with any of that. Disagreement is with how much warming there is. Is it going to be a catastrophe or is it going to be 0.5 degrees and as far as we can see the evidence the empirical evidence, and there's lots of it, all seems to point to it being around about half a degree to maybe one degree with CO2 doubling which is not the catastrophic projections that are coming out from the climate models
So now you are quoting people you don't agree with. Hmmm, interesting.

Again as I said earlier. Whatever you believe in, there is no loss moving the world to a more energy efficient and sustainable future. If the Earth continues to warm due to other factors, we are stuffed anyway; but if it doesn't we save oil/petrol/coal, improve the quality of air, reduce the excess CO2 in the air (yes I am aware that it is required).

And, other than Jo, you have proven that "your" scientists are no different to so called "climate" scientists because they all are funded and like it or not, unfortunately have agendas. My Forbes most definitely does, whether he is right or not, his comments cannot be included in this debate, so "The graphics and citations were good." ... don't care. He may have shown me what he wanted me to see, or as you have said many times (thereabouts) fiddled the numbers.
Pete
btw: I am impressed that Jo said that, because she grew up in Western Australia which really has only one industry and that is iron ore (big industry like the oil industry); and she coordinated the Shell Questacon Science Circus, which was partly funded by Shell Oil

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post #2444 of 2918 (permalink) Old 02-13-2019, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Subtle View Post
Debates are rarely "utterly mute".
Well this one is . No matter what the consensus, if we ever reach one, this thread will not change anything


But to return to authoritarian governments, Americans don't even understand what they are talking about. I believe they use this topic to keep their precious guns, because of course they live in such a politically dangerous country that the government is going to come out and attack their citizens. Tell that to a religious minority living in the middle east ... will get laughed at!
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post #2445 of 2918 (permalink) Old 02-13-2019, 06:30 PM
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The main thing is:
Did you review the charts showing temperature history?

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