Do you believe in "global warming?" - Page 123 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1831 of 2918 (permalink) Old 11-19-2012, 01:59 PM Thread Starter
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Del, here's the important point in my view. It doesn't matter! Wait! Hear me out... What does matter even more than global warming, be it true or not true, is that we are all held hostage to a cartel of fossil fuel energy producers, and the long term scenario of that cartel's manipulation is, yes, possible ecological disaster, but more importantly than that is the CERTAIN economic disaster that will follow our lives as that scenario plays out. We are already feeling the pinch from the increased cost of energy as fossil fuels get more expensive.

So, what's the answer, not just to the economic problem, but also to the environmental one? There is only one EXISTING technology with the potential to make a difference: nuclear fission. We should have been pursuing this technology all along, but we didn't thanks to that rube, Jimmy Carter. Now, we should renounce the treaty that prevents us from building breeder reactors, draft every 18 year old, and get busy covering the nation with them. Then they should be operated by the federal government - we've seen what happnes when private enterprise operates fission reactors, and it is not a good idea. In addition, all existing reactors should be nationalized and operated by the fed as well so they can get on with shutting them down for newer designs.

None of the other fossil fuel replacements are ready for prime time, but more to the point, the best way to set the stage for them is to pursue my plan. Once we've converted our entire infrasctucture to run on cheap electricity produced by breeder reactors, then, and only then, will it become viable to introduce other alternative as those technologies get developed.

This is my problem with the global warming crew - not that they are wrong, but that they have no realistic program to ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT!!!! My program will reduce CO2 emissions, and is the only one I've ever heard of that will. The rest is nonsense and bs.
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post #1832 of 2918 (permalink) Old 11-19-2012, 02:02 PM Thread Starter
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In my opinion, all the "debate" about global warming is astroturfed fud to make sure that nobody actually thinks about the ideas that I propound.

So Warmers and Deniars, you have to ask yourselves this: "Am I part of the solution, or part of the problem?"
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post #1833 of 2918 (permalink) Old 11-19-2012, 02:15 PM
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Now, we should renounce the treaty that prevents us from building breeder reactors, draft every 18 year old, and get busy covering the nation with them..
Randy, you can't be serious with this one. Do you really want to draft people to work in the energy sector? Isn't that essentially equivalent to enslaving people to give you the energy you feel you need?

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post #1834 of 2918 (permalink) Old 11-19-2012, 02:28 PM
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Well put Del, and I couldn't agree with you more. A lot of money has come out of big corporations to fund disinformation. While I think radical change is needed, I don't think anyone or any government is looking to take our vintage auto's away. I do think as a human being I have a responsability to be conscious about the decisions I make in contributing to the amount of petro chemical carbon I release into the air.
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post #1835 of 2918 (permalink) Old 11-19-2012, 02:36 PM
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Greg, I'm not sure, but I bet randy doesn't really want to cover the nation with 18 year olds. But then meds are being restricted these days, unless you live in Washington or Colorado, where they can now release bud clouds into the air to counteract the bad effects of carbon.

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post #1836 of 2918 (permalink) Old 11-19-2012, 02:37 PM Thread Starter
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No, it is essentially drafting young people to ensure our security, as we have done from time to time throughout the history of the US. Did you ever study history? You do know we have had a military draft, in, like WWII for example? More to the point, the beauty of this draft is that nobody has to shoot anybody so no deferments should apply.

Oh wait, I get it, you don't understand how dire our situation vis-a-vis energy is. We are facing a complete breakdown of civilization as dire as any war in history. We can sit around arguing abou global warming and carbon credits (*** will that do???) or we can DO something about it. My plan is the only doing that gets anything significant done! If you have a better idea, I am all ears...

Or, maybe you think the answer is to go back to 35 year life expectencies by de-industrializing. If so, your willingness to sacrifice is noble, but, news flash, no one else is going to go along with you, so again, nothing positive gets done.

In other words, its not "me" who feels he needs energy, but 299,999,998 Americans besides me, you exempeted.
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post #1837 of 2918 (permalink) Old 11-19-2012, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
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Greg, I'm not sure, but I bet randy doesn't really want to cover the nation with 18 year olds. But then meds are being restricted these days, unless you live in Washington or Colorado, where they can now release bud clouds into the air to counteract the bad effects of carbon.
With reactors, as if you didn't know that. I mean, golly, if you disagree with my ideas is it so much trouble to actually present a rational arguement?
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post #1838 of 2918 (permalink) Old 11-19-2012, 02:48 PM
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With reactors, as if you didn't know that. I mean, golly, if you disagree with my ideas is it so much trouble to actually present a rational arguement?
Golly, I preferred the 18 YO, though my memory is fading on her reaction. I already have a reactor about 30 miles down the road, and thankfully, Trojan was closed in order to let the 18 YO live. That's my story, and I'm sticking with it.

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post #1839 of 2918 (permalink) Old 11-19-2012, 03:12 PM
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Did you ever study history?
Randy, there is no need to stoop to insults by implying that people that dont agree with you didn't study history or "don't get it". To answer your question, yes, I studied history a lot, and continue to do so.

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You do know we have had a military draft, in, like WWII for example?
Yes, I think most people know that. However, comparing our current energy situation to WWII is probably insulting to those who fought in that war.

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Oh wait, I get it, you don't understand how dire our situation vis-a-vis energy is.
I do get it, I just don't agree with you.

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We can sit around arguing abou global warming and carbon credits (*** will that do???) or we can DO something about it. My plan is the only doing that gets anything significant done! If you have a better idea, I am all ears...
Do something about what? Your question assumes that the global warming theory is a fact.

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Or, maybe you think the answer is to go back to 35 year life expectencies by de-industrializing. If so, your willingness to sacrifice is noble, but, news flash, no one else is going to go along with you, so again, nothing positive gets done.
Randy, I NEVER said anything to suggest that's a good idea. I would never suggest something that far out of left field.

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In other words, its not "me" who feels he needs energy, but 299,999,998 Americans besides me, you exempeted.
What? Just because I don't agree with your plan doesn't mean I am against energy. I have no idea how you came up with that. Let me be clear, I am all for energy, I am against your plan to "draft" people to provide it.

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post #1840 of 2918 (permalink) Old 11-19-2012, 03:25 PM
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There are a lot of good brains working on solutions to the problems we face when dealing with Climate Change. How about putting those 18 yr. olds to work trying to figure out more efficient wind/wave/solar technology? Nuclear energy in it's current form, is not sustainable. Bottom line. Besides the by-product being bomb material, we have NO LONGTERM storage facilities. Here in Washington State we are being told the current batch of leaking leak-proof containers (yes) won't be fixed for 7 to 12 years while a new leak-proof container is designed and built.
I agree that the biggest problem is that we stand around arguing and not doing anything. The curve that renewable technology is advancing could be GREATLY accelerated if there was the push behind it that there was behind industry during wwll.
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post #1841 of 2918 (permalink) Old 11-19-2012, 03:58 PM
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Well --you got the "wildest simulations" right, but the politically correct numbers have been cooked by control freaks.

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post #1842 of 2918 (permalink) Old 11-19-2012, 05:00 PM
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"Doing something" by making sacrifices in the interest of controlling climate change, may help people to feel good about themselves in the midst of trying times but accomplishes little else of significance. This is a road we've been down many times in the past. It happens when people try to resolve their anxieties by socially constructing a "cause" like climate change and then make a moral demand that everyone agree with them.

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Last edited by 180OUT; 11-19-2012 at 05:10 PM.
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post #1843 of 2918 (permalink) Old 11-19-2012, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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Randy, there is no need to stoop to insults by implying that people that dont agree with you didn't study history or "don't get it". To answer your question, yes, I studied history a lot, and continue to do so.



Yes, I think most people know that. However, comparing our current energy situation to WWII is probably insulting to those who fought in that war.



I do get it, I just don't agree with you.



Do something about what? Your question assumes that the global warming theory is a fact.



Randy, I NEVER said anything to suggest that's a good idea. I would never suggest something that far out of left field.



What? Just because I don't agree with your plan doesn't mean I am against energy. I have no idea how you came up with that. Let me be clear, I am all for energy, I am against your plan to "draft" people to provide it.

Greg
Greg, I apologize for coming on a bit strong, but your comment, "enslaving people to give you the energy you feel you need" pretty much begged a strong response, didn't it? Maybe I misunderstood, but why did you use the word "you". We all need energy for Pete's sake.

Leaving aside your comment, my bigger problem with the status quo is what I perceive as a very complacent attitude towards the issue of energy production. No doubt, my vitriol is not the best strategy to wake people the heck up, but I am learning, I hope.

OK, so now to your constructive comment above, "I am all for energy, I am against your plan to "draft" people to provide it." OK, but then I have to ask this: how do you think we are going to continue to have cheap energy (upon which our entire culture is built!) when fossil fuels are always going to be the most cost effective form of energy, but yet are no longer very cheap like they used to be and are inexorably getting less so?

Do you see what I did there?
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post #1844 of 2918 (permalink) Old 11-19-2012, 05:14 PM Thread Starter
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"Doing something" by making sacrifices in the interest of controlling climate change, may help people to feel good about themselves in the midst of trying times but accomplishes little else of significance. This is a road we've been down many times in the past. It happens when people try to resolve their anxieties by socially constructing a "cause" like climate change and then make a moral demand that everyone agree with them.
Hold that thought - I'll get back to you presently.
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post #1845 of 2918 (permalink) Old 11-19-2012, 05:19 PM Thread Starter
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There are a lot of good brains working on solutions to the problems we face when dealing with Climate Change. How about putting those 18 yr. olds to work trying to figure out more efficient wind/wave/solar technology? Nuclear energy in it's current form, is not sustainable. Bottom line. Besides the by-product being bomb material, we have NO LONGTERM storage facilities. Here in Washington State we are being told the current batch of leaking leak-proof containers (yes) won't be fixed for 7 to 12 years while a new leak-proof container is designed and built.
I agree that the biggest problem is that we stand around arguing and not doing anything. The curve that renewable technology is advancing could be GREATLY accelerated if there was the push behind it that there was behind industry during wwll.
I contend that the problems with Fission that you bring up here are caused by two poorly strategized aspects of our current program. 1. Failure to utilize breeder reactors that burn their waste. 2. The implementation of Fission via private enterprise that, in the case of Fission, cannot help but privatize profit while socializing cost.

I agree that we have the potential to do much more with renewable tech, but I contend that the only way we are going to create a situation that will demand that we do so is to first create cheap electricity with Fission. That will permit us to re-engineer our infrastructure to run on generated electricity instead of burning oil. Then, that done, we can let Renewables compete on overall cost and environmental impact with Fission. The thing I think you are missing in your thinking is the impact of the tremendous cost of infrastructure re-engineering. Taking that into account, leaves me with no alternative, for now, but Fission.

Last edited by randyleepublic; 11-19-2012 at 06:58 PM.
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