Th Future of Our Cars and Hobby/Passion - Page 3 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 61Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #31 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-07-2017, 09:23 AM
Moderator
Platinum SubscriberModerator
 
Alfajay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: San Juan Capistrano
Posts: 9,631
Quote:
Spending money on roads instead of welfare is literally choosing rich white men over everyone else...
Yup, makes sense to me. After all, the food and medicines that get distributed to "everyone else" are delivered by ???? Solar-powered drones perhaps?

Glad we have such thoughtful citizens.

Jay Mackro
San Juan Capistrano, CA

'63 Guilia spider
'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
'91 164L

Last edited by Alfajay; 07-07-2017 at 10:32 AM.
Alfajay is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-07-2017, 09:47 AM
Registered User
 
Spitfire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Southern CT
Posts: 1,746
If I found the same person online, she's British and her folks were wealthy.
Anfanuts likes this.

John
1991 Alfa Romeo 164L, 1993 Ford 5.0L Mustang
Spitfire is offline  
post #33 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-07-2017, 10:23 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Just outside Baltimore, MD, USA
Posts: 436
Best car ad since VW's Darth Vader kid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfajay View Post
Somehow, this Alfa Romeo ad comes to mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHgndLyA0Vg&sns=em
Loved this. Reminded my of this article, with it's warning of the "Electric Singularity" and what it means for classic car collectors/enthusiasts.

Why the 996-Generation Porsche 911 Will Never Be Collectible

"I’d also be remiss if I didn’t mention that fact that the Electric Singularity is probably going to arrive within the next 30 years or so, at which point owning a gasoline-powered car will become a difficult and expensive pastime for a relatively small number of high-net-worth people. Overnight, the collector market will collapse to a blue-chips-only situation. The Red Barchetta that your uncle puts in his country place will be a ‘77 Turbo Carrera or a ‘13 997.2 GT3. It won’t be a fried-egg car."

The Red Barchetta reference is not only to the Ferrari 166MM, but also one of the best car songs ever, Rush's Red Barchetta. Great lyrics, "I'm in Love with My Car" meets "Fahrenheit 451":

My uncle has a country place
That no one knows about
He says it used to be a farm
Before the Motor Law
And on Sundays I elude the eyes
And hop the Turbine Freight
To far outside the Wire
Where my white-haired uncle waits

Jump to the ground
As the Turbo slows to cross the borderline
Run like the wind
As excitement shivers up and down my spine
Down in his barn
My uncle preserved for me an old machine
For fifty odd years
To keep it as new has been his dearest dream

I strip away the old debris
That hides a shining car
A brilliant red Barchetta
From a better vanished time
I fire up the willing engine
Responding with a roar
Tires spitting gravel
I commit my weekly crime

Wind
In my hair
Shifting and drifting
Mechanical music
Adrenaline surge...

Well-weathered leather
Hot metal and oil
The scented country air
Sunlight on chrome
The blur of the landscape
Every nerve aware

Suddenly ahead of me
Across the mountainside
A gleaming alloy air car
Shoots towards me, two lanes wide
I spin around with shrieking tires
To run the deadly race
Go screaming through the valley
As another joins the chase

Drive like the wind
Straining the limits of machine and man
Laughing out loud with fear and hope
I've got a desperate plan
At the one-lane bridge
I leave the giants stranded at the riverside
Race back to the farm
To dream with my uncle at the fireside.
Anfanuts and f4driver like this.

Jim: '17 Giulia Q4 Ti Sport/Performance; '92 Spider Veloce; '12 Honda Odyssey family hauler; '18 Mustang GT (because Alfa doesn't sell manuals anymore)
Rutlefan is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-07-2017, 10:35 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,761
I like my old cars and my friends like their old cars and when we go maybe someone will like our old cars. I know my sons do not like Alfas but I do not like their video games.
evieceli likes this.
kuni123456 is online now  
post #35 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-07-2017, 11:07 AM
Registered User
 
evieceli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 79
Garage
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuni123456 View Post
I like my old cars and my friends like their old cars and when we go maybe someone will like our old cars. I know my sons do not like Alfas but I do not like their video games.
You hit the nail on the head. Perfectly!
Hopefully someday when your kids grow up, they'll change their minds and will appreciate old cars like your Alfas. Tastes change as we get older. Mine sure have.
evieceli is offline  
post #36 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-07-2017, 11:10 AM
Registered User
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: 592 Browns Trace Jericho, Vermont
Posts: 2,578
Garage
Wow! I feel old now, even though I'm 56. The Newest car I drive is an 87 Milano, 30 years old. Have a 98 Dodge Pickup but that is in the same category as my lawn mower, it's me plow/garbage truck.
Hate NEW cars plastic junk with too many computers, certain to fail in 20 years. Car produced today even the new ALFA's will die mainly from an electronic issue. Some of us who have cars with $5.00 points can go forever, providing the parts are around, but I have quite the inventory.
There is still a passion out there for cars, you see it more so with the Subies & Hondas where I live, the COFFEE Can generation. Well they have a passion for cars at least.
Love my ALFA's and will drive them till the day I die or there is no gas.
Just because the world is changing doesn't mean I have to change.
Suck my smoke, it's better than smelling your FARTS!
IanB and evieceli like this.

AlfasRule!

1972 Montreal (The Pumpkin)
1975 Alfetta Sedan
1975 Alfetta Coupe Race Car
1982 Spider
1984 GTV-6
1984 GTV-6 Verde (GiGi)
1987 Milano (Da NEW Winta Beata)
1987 Milano Verde(Da kREDden Mobile)
alfasrule is offline  
post #37 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-07-2017, 11:59 AM
Registered User
 
evieceli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 79
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by alfasrule View Post
Wow! I feel old now, even though I'm 56. The Newest car I drive is an 87 Milano, 30 years old. Have a 98 Dodge Pickup but that is in the same category as my lawn mower, it's me plow/garbage truck.
Hate NEW cars plastic junk with too many computers, certain to fail in 20 years. Car produced today even the new ALFA's will die mainly from an electronic issue. Some of us who have cars with $5.00 points can go forever, providing the parts are around, but I have quite the inventory.
There is still a passion out there for cars, you see it more so with the Subies & Hondas where I live, the COFFEE Can generation. Well they have a passion for cars at least.
Love my ALFA's and will drive them till the day I die or there is no gas.
Just because the world is changing doesn't mean I have to change.
Suck my smoke, it's better than smelling your FARTS!
Agreed... new cars are hideously ugly (except for very few that are modeled after classic, original styled models - mustang, camaro, challenger) yet are made not to last on purpose with useless technology and crappy plastic. Who cares about car warranties anymore as they are worthless because the majority of so-called dealership mechanics can't fix them properly. They also don't put all the parts (covers, clips, trim, nuts/bolts) back together out of mere laziness. I have a 2014 vehicle that runs great (for now) but once it shows signs of electronic related issues that I cannot fix myself... Buh bye! The mechanical stuff is far easier than the electrical nightmares. When all else fails, I'm going to drive my 71 Spider every day.
Anfanuts and IanB like this.
evieceli is offline  
post #38 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 05:20 AM Thread Starter
Born Again Boarder
Gold Subscriber
 
Anfanuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spicewood, Texas (in the boonies)
Posts: 6,960
Garage
Send a message via Skype™ to Anfanuts
Lifted from 180out in another semi-related Thread: "Economics be damned, European car makers are under orders to go electric exclusively.". Volvo to stop producing fossil fueled cars after MY2019, others to follow. Let's hope what starts in Europe stays in Europe, saviors of the Earth!

https://spectator.org/volvo-commits-sepukku/
Anfanuts is offline  
post #39 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 08:16 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 4,021
Thanks for posting the Alfa advertisement., Jay. The Alfa copywriters got the culture-war message about right in this ad. Generations of mostly urban, cosmopolite Americans have been so propagandized that they readily accept the idea of a post-modern future depicted in this advertisement. Fortunately, change doesn't play favorites and free societies often evolve in ways that "official planning" projections can neither predict or control. Free societies are funny that way.

A good example of what I'm talking about is the utter failure of municipalities to control street-racing. When I taught deviant behavior, I often used the example of street-racing to illustrate how deviant subcultures worked. And every time I talked about this, a couple of students would come up after class and tell me where the next street-race was gong to take place! These were not the poseur daddy-car teen racers that often got themselves killed in spectacular fashion. These were the "real" street-racers, guys who showed up in purpose-built, although "outlaw", racers. The local politicians would piss and moan about "the carnage on our roadways" and promise dire consequences for lawbreakers. Meanwhile, decades long tacit understandings existed between the cops and racers who were mostly left alone so long as they didn't become too visible. I mention this because there's always been an element of rebellion in our car culture. There's hope for the future.

Jim . . . '72 Super 1300, '70, 1750GTV, 2nd series,
'62, Lancia Flaminia Zagato3c, 2nd series

Last edited by 180OUT; 07-10-2017 at 08:33 AM.
180OUT is offline  
post #40 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 09:11 AM
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Scalino1300's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Holland
Posts: 280
Garage
Interest discussion, one that is sadly inevitable. The transformation to just non-fossile fueled cars is bound to happen.

Having said that, I do think there is hope for us. As said before I think there will always be a place for classics in some form or shape. Probably more difficult is some ways in comparison to now. Especially driving in densely populated areas will be more difficult or impossible due to legislation, as we already have in Europe. Though here in Holland 'true' classics are exempt, depending on the city the laws are different, but generally petrol powered and over 40 years old and you're good.

Also on the younger generation having less affinity with cars, definitely true. BUT do we as car enthusiast make up the whole world...? We are only a small percentage of the total population and I think in the younger generation (of which I myself am a part of at 23 years old) the same will be the case. Maybe not as many people as now, but most definitely still a big group.
Last year I drove in my fathers Fiat Dino Spider and a young boy (8 years old probably) said to his little sister: "when I grow up I want that car". That gives hope right . (I would have given him a ride if I hadn't been on my way somewhere and his parent(s) were with him.)

On Volvo going electric, it isn't as drastic as the title suggests. They are only going to make hybrids and all-ellectric cars going forward, so still partly fossile fuelled. Of course the first step, but they are not there yet.

On the positive side; technology gave us this form of communication (which I think makes the step to maintaining your car yourself a lot smaller) and 3d printing, which could come in very useful once it gets a litte cheaper.

Tim
________________
'66 Giulia Ti
'69 GT 1300 Junior
'03 156 GTA SW
Scalino1300 is offline  
post #41 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 10:35 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 278
as a minor counterpoint to the larger discussion, my older son wants an analog car when he returns to the US, he is worried about surveillance, hacking and other cyber-car issues.
willwiser is offline  
post #42 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
Born Again Boarder
Gold Subscriber
 
Anfanuts's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Spicewood, Texas (in the boonies)
Posts: 6,960
Garage
Send a message via Skype™ to Anfanuts
Not to mention the big EMP. Points, baby, points.
Anfanuts is offline  
post #43 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 01:03 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 4,021
Quote:
Also on the younger generation having less affinity with cars, definitely true. BUT do we as car enthusiast make up the whole world...? We are only a small percentage of the total population and I think in the younger generation (of which I myself am a part of at 23 years old) the same will be the case. Maybe not as many people as now, but most definitely still a big group. Last year I drove in my fathers Fiat Dino Spider and a young boy (8 years old probably) said to his little sister: "when I grow up I want that car". That gives hope right . (I would have given him a ride if I hadn't been on my way somewhere and his parent(s) were with him.)

I think you're right about this. So long as people can develop an appreciation for the aesthetic values of old Alfas, there will be people who want to own them---unless of course a state like France or some municipality make owning them illegal. There are some core values about the changing nature of the state and its impact on individual values of freedom and liberty that have yet to be resolved and are destined to be troublesome. But, setting those arguments aside for a moment, it's worth looking at other more or less abstract activities that involve uncommon aesthetic appreciations that might give us some hint as to the future of car appreciation.

Let's take classical music for an example. For most people in modern, mainstream societies classical music in general and specific forms like opera or classical guitar are so abstract as to seem almost unreachable when compared to to most people's everyday tastes. Yet . . . from decade to decade there are new populations of young music enthusiasts who school themselves on the wonders of Bach, Verdi, and Fernando Sor and become avid performers and audiences. I think there's a lot to like about old Alfas and, so long as there are people to share in the aesthetic of Alfas and other great old cars, along with appreciation of classical music and other arts we'll continue to have a car culture.

Jim . . . '72 Super 1300, '70, 1750GTV, 2nd series,
'62, Lancia Flaminia Zagato3c, 2nd series

Last edited by 180OUT; 07-10-2017 at 01:07 PM.
180OUT is offline  
post #44 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 01:41 PM
Registered User
 
ARwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Transplanted from Holland to The Armpit of New Jersey
Posts: 2,282
Garage
Glad I don't live there anymore...

Dutch ban on gas and diesel cars by 2025 - Business Insider

“If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough”
Oo--V--oO There is a fine line between "Hobby" and "Mental Illness".
ARwrench is offline  
post #45 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-10-2017, 02:07 PM
Registered User
 
GV27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Green Mountain, Colorado
Posts: 1,698
Garage
Send a message via AIM to GV27
The biggest threat to our cars (or at least how we enjoy them) isn't emissions regulations or safety regulations, or politicians looking to steal freedom, or kids playing on your lawn, or plastic Toyotas designed to only last for 300k miles, or any of this other BS you guys are talking about. The real threat is the wheel nut and self driving cars.

edit: oh sorry, this WAS mentioned. In the first paragraph of this thread. It just hasn't been mentioned again.

The nut behind the wheel is far and away the most unreliable, most dangerous and most inefficient component of the automobile as we know them today. Self-driving cars are going to be a total revolution for transportation. I can already hear the cries of "FREEDOM!" from people on here but as long as the car will take you anywhere you want to go the vast majority of people won't see their freedom restricted at all. And that will be the only sticking point.

Self driving cars communicating among themselves are going to virtually eliminate traffic jams, virtually eliminate crashes, shorten trip times dramatically, dramatically improve fuel efficiency across the "fleet", and dramatically reduce emissions. Highway capacity will be expanded several times, stoplights and signs will be eliminated completely - heck stopping at intersections at all will be eliminated, the cars will just interleave automagically.

Obviously us enthusiast drivers won't like this but the vast majority of drivers won't care at all. You'll still be able to get an expensive flashy car to show everyone what a big shot you are and that's all most people care about other than getting quickly from A to B. You don't have to sit in traffic jams and you can text and eat and play games to your heart's content on the ride? Not many people would turn all of that down. This will all take 20 or 30 years, but it's coming. Bet on it.

So then the question comes how does an old non-autonomous vehicle fit into this? Not very well, that's how. A single non-autonomous car on a highway full of autonomous cars? Suddenly you've dramatically increased the danger and dramatically decreased the capacity of that highway. Joe's example of the horse is a good one. Sure you can still "drive" your horse on country roads and of course you can "drive" them on private tracks but you can't "drive" them on the highway and you can't "drive" them in city centers. And where you can "drive" them in the same lanes as car traffic you slow that traffic and create a bit of a safety hazard. I have a hard time seeing our cars NOT suffer this fate in the fairly near future and that will dramatically effect the way I enjoy my car. Might be a real boon for the vintage racing scene though.

Chris
Anfanuts likes this.

Chris

1990 Spider Veloce

Last edited by GV27; 07-10-2017 at 02:24 PM.
GV27 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome