Th Future of Our Cars and Hobby/Passion - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #16 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-06-2017, 08:00 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
25 years in CT and the car is emissions exempt.

Again, a lot of things have to change rapidly to prevent us from driving those cars.
Look how quickly and firmly we got ethanol additive crammed up our arses even though it makes no sense unless you are a corn farmer or agribusiness. And despite all the data and cons, we still can't get rid of it.
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post #17 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-06-2017, 08:07 PM
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I believe the future is not as bleak as that.

I've said this before, but people once predicted that automobiles would cause the horse as a species to become extinct. There have certainly been a lot of changes (nobody daily drives a horse to work anymore) but there are also multi-million dollar industries dedicated to the use and enjoyment of horses, in many different ways.

And, from a legal standpoint, riders on horseback still have the right of way on most public roads and trails around here. So I would have to believe that "legacy" automobiles will also have some rights grandfathered in when new rules are made up, at least in rural areas. I can see congested urban areas banning them completely in the near future.
If they (the government) does that, I'd rather be dead. LOL I don't think most guys can live without cars. At least I can't. Because of cars, motorcycles, etc., it's the only means for us guys to think for ourselves on our own term in our garages and to simply get away from other nagging "annoyances" in our lives. Technology is good only up to a certain point but thereafter has become very detrimental. Sorry, I just won't do electric cars (too quiet... too weird for me) and especially won't do self driving cars... Think of a computer crashing... Brings a new meaning to the famous blue screen of death... Yikes! Yeah I agree that this would definitely have to be grandfathered in as are horses today.
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post #18 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-06-2017, 08:16 PM
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Look how quickly and firmly we got ethanol additive crammed up our arses even though it makes no sense unless you are a corn farmer or agribusiness. And despite all the data and cons, we still can't get rid of it.
This isn't a combative question. I would like to understand more. Has this stopped you from driving classic cars?

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post #19 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-06-2017, 08:17 PM Thread Starter
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If they (the government) does that, I'd rather be dead. LOL I don't think most guys can live without cars. At least I can't. Because of cars, motorcycles, etc., it's the only means for us guys to think for ourselves on our own term in our garages and to simply get away from other nagging "annoyances" in our lives. Technology is good only up to a certain point but thereafter has become very detrimental. Sorry, I just won't do electric cars (too quiet... too weird for me) and especially won't do self driving cars... Think of a computer crashing... Brings a new meaning to the famous blue screen of death... Yikes! Yeah I agree that this would definitely have to be grandfathered in as are horses today.
But Comrade, for the good of the collective you will have a man-bun and wear metrosexual flannel (and a manskirt) and crush you old noisy polluting culturally oppressive and mysoginistic icon. Working in the community garden will bring you peace from your annoyances. You can meditate and perform self-improvement in the self-driving cars in town and on light rail to avoid pollution, noise and congestion downtown and commuting into town. In fact getting a small apartment near your work with no parking (building in Austin) will avoid commuting and you can use public transit (Agenda21) without even the need to own a car. . . .

You get the point. But this would never happen, right.

Last edited by Anfanuts; 07-06-2017 at 08:37 PM. Reason: But
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post #20 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-06-2017, 08:21 PM Thread Starter
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This isn't a combative question. I would like to understand more. Has this stopped you from driving classic cars?
No not me, but it has done immeasurable damage in the marine industry and small gas-powered appliances. I imagine it is causing more need for carb rebuilds and FI work. I see white deposits all over my fuel system when I break it apart. We live with and adapt to the craziness and pay the farmers. Andf we pay more for our food. Corn for ethanol for votes in the mid-west.
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post #21 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-06-2017, 08:46 PM
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No not me, but it has done immeasurable damage in the marine industry and small gas-powered appliances. I imagine it is causing more need for carb rebuilds and FI work. I see white deposits all over my fuel system when I break it apart. We live with and adapt to the craziness and pay the farmers. Andf we pay more for our food. Corn for ethanol for votes in the mid-west.
I would like to think this can keep certain people or companies in business with solutions. I will plead some ignorance. Whatever we run here keeps the 90s and up happy with fuel injection, and no issues with lawn equipment.

I'm not much for debate. I try to use what I see in practice. We specify equipment that can last 25 years in commercial buildings. I don't see a plan for phase out right now. Gas and oil burners. 10 years from now or more we'll probably still be specifying that.

I don't see a plan for phase out of common residential fossil fuel equipment.

We will continue to keep historical buildings in town. 250 years and up.

I just don't see the end so near. You can really take this in a lot of directions. I shouldn't maintain my lawn. I shouldn't want a pool....

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post #22 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-06-2017, 08:57 PM
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But Comrade, for the good of the collective you will have a man-bun and wear metrosexual flannel (and a manskirt) and crush you old noisy polluting culturally oppressive and mysoginistic icon. Working in the community garden will bring you peace from your annoyances. You can meditate and perform self-improvement in the self-driving cars in town and on light rail to avoid pollution, noise and congestion downtown and commuting into town. In fact getting a small apartment near your work with no parking (building in Austin) will avoid commuting and you can use public transit (Agenda21) without even the need to own a car. . . .

You get the point. But this would never happen, right.
Sadly, it very well can and most likely "eventually" will. Hopefully I won't be around by the time that happens. Now only if I could win the lottery and buy my own private island. (Yikes... man skirt? Not a good idea, trust me!) LOL
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Last edited by evieceli; 07-06-2017 at 09:00 PM. Reason: Added one more comment
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post #23 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-06-2017, 09:51 PM
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I do not worry about the fate of gasoline powered cars because no one can stop progress. You have to remember that gasoline powered cars pollute more than electric cars. The day will come when electric battery powered cars have longer range and can be recharged faster and then gasoline powered cars will start to vanish. I know that my Alfas will only probably be recycled and a few will be seen in car collections. I enjoy driving them as long as possible.
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post #24 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-06-2017, 11:38 PM
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I do not worry about the fate of gasoline powered cars because no one can stop progress. You have to remember that gasoline powered cars pollute more than electric cars. The day will come when electric battery powered cars have longer range and can be recharged faster and then gasoline powered cars will start to vanish. I know that my Alfas will only probably be recycled and a few will be seen in car collections. I enjoy driving them as long as possible.
Thats simply not true. Don't drink the kool-aid thinking that producing electric cars polutes less than gasoline cars. The battery production process in itself is nasty. Lead, acids, plastics. Then disposal when they go bad. Landfills, pollution. Recycling batteries? Creates pollution. The only viable, clean option is hydrogen conversions for existing engines and of course new cars... The big oil industry lobbyists fight against that as it would cripple their industry. Plastic on the other hand for battery manufacturing is made using oil. There's nothing truly green about electric cars, nor any manufacturing process. Don't be fooled. Just as those who claimed that R12 freon hosed up the ozone layer. Big corporation propaganda as its finest.
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post #25 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-07-2017, 06:26 AM Thread Starter
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I am not so sanguine about this and think this so-called "progress" will happen more quickly than we can imagine. It will led by "progressive" cities. Perhaps even in a step-wise fashion.

There is a broad nexus of trends in demographics, technology and socio-politically that will kill by a thousand paper cuts, some large and many small. All mentioned above and others vectors as well not yet mentioned (sporting cars are for rich white guys and inherently misogynist and culturally oppressive; muscle cars and rods even moreso, an icon of a bad past, as pushed by a SJW).

IMO the biggest is demographics - the oldest Boomers at 71. That includes a lot of the mechanics and know-how. Thay have made cars so complicated that the younger crowd views cars as appliances and not as your treasured friend to fettle, console and fondle in the wee hours. Few are heartily fettling their cars - they add wraps and carbon fiber trim pieces and a chips and a tuned exhaust. - bolt on. The law prohibits otherwise and even some of that. Some 30 years ago, antiques were still popular and I collected antique clocks as a representation of "form and function". Like an old car. No one wants them any more. The price has plunged. An antique shop may take 1 or 2 on consignment with a sigh. There is a glut on e-Bay (sounds like BAT now). Virtually no one wants antique furniture, remember quarter-sawn oak that was prized? Can't give it away to younguns even painted white for a temporary baby's room. Toggle switches and round gauges - so like grandfather had. This yawning apathy will allow the creep of socio-political control like famous California. What happens as they continue to tighten the noose on "oldtimers" there - the tulip market could collapse nationally, a sea change. It is edging closer.

While this indeed will be easier to "control" in cities due to an "imperative" and passive acceptance (like ethanol), the vast majority of flyover country is the fly in the ointment. None of the proscriptive fixes work well there - car to go, Uber, light rail, self-driving cars. They also do not work for construction and service personnel who carry parts and tools. We got a taste of this visiting Zermatt, Sienna, Lucca, Modena, etc. on a recent trip, where the village/town was buzzing with all kinds of large fossil fueled and small electric taxis and service vehicles and scooters, but private car usage was very limited in what they call ZTL's - Zone Traffic Limited. They are talking about converting downtown Austin streets to pedestrian areas now. This dichotomy will further pit working red against elitist and poor blue.

Like I said I am not personally losing any sleep over this and I do drive the hell out of my cars. The value is in their use. Don't take shots at this, come up with your view, it's all speculation. This is just a possible scenario and others are all just possible outcomes.

Last edited by Anfanuts; 07-07-2017 at 06:40 AM. Reason: typos
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post #26 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-07-2017, 06:47 AM
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Well put Alfanuts. I share your view that the largest threat is demographics. I am one of the next generation, so I know how different it is. I got my license on my 16th birthday, the soonest possible day it was legal to do so. Now I see several friends and little sisters/brothers who have just decided it's not worth it. Many wait until 18! I know my parents said that the day after my 16th birthday was the day they would stop driving my butt around. Unfortunately in the coddle-state that has come about in modern parenting none of that happens. If you don't drive the cars you don't love the cars!
When I was 13 I spent the summer rebuilding the engine, redoing the brakes, and generally fully restoring a 1969 Jag with my father. I can point to exactly zero of my friends back then with comparable experience. Indeed, greater than 50% of my friends from home CANNOT EVEN DRIVE A MANUAL GEARBOX. The ones who can are able by and large because I TAUGHT THEM.
I am occasionally heartened now by being in the submarine force, which is a magnet for gearheads. If the population had the same proportion of mechanics/carnuts as the submarine force, we'd be set for the hobby for a long time. I guess it's telling that I found more people interested in my BMW 850i on my boat than on the island of Oahu via craigslist...
Alfanut, I also would agree that the manbun is one of the most vile and emasculating fashion trends to take the nation in my lifetime.

A car without an internal combustion engine is a car without a soul!
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post #27 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-07-2017, 07:05 AM
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I enjoy driving my old Alfas and realize that one day they will probably no longer around. I live in the Los Angeles area and air pollution is a big problem. The cars built after 1975 still need smog tests every two years and that is a problem for older car owners. I am reminder that my Giulietta Sprint Veloce produces large amount of air pollution each time I drive and is not good for people with health problems. I will drive my cars as long as possible and have not control of the future when I am gone.
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post #28 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-07-2017, 08:01 AM Thread Starter
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Look what Twitter puked into my lap this morning. I'm telling ya . . . The howitzer of social justice will come around to vintage cars, if not all cars, before you know it.
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post #29 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-07-2017, 08:07 AM Thread Starter
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Well put Alfanuts. I share your view that the largest threat is demographics. I am one of the next generation, so I know how different it is.
Remember too that the baby boomer curve is highly skewed and front-end loaded in the first 1/3rd - 46-52. That means that most will be hitting the skids in the next 5 years. That said, 80 is the new 50, right . . .
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post #30 of 142 (permalink) Old 07-07-2017, 09:20 AM
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Somehow, this Alfa Romeo ad comes to mind:


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