Th Future of Our Cars and Hobby/Passion - Page 10 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #136 of 151 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 08:58 PM
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So, who will be interested in our kinds of cars in the coming years? Will anybody in the younger generation appreciate the seductive sound of an old Alfa running on Webers enough to actually learn about, own, drive and---be still my heart---actually work on them? For that to happen we're going to need a small subset of the larger population who will "get" the unique esthetics that attracted us to old Alfas. Happily, if you look at the numbers of 20 somethings who are avid classical guitarists or, perhaps even better, who are avidly learning about and participating in early music, I think you'll find groups of people who might very well find old Alfas charming and interesting enough to become as involved with GTV's, Supers, and Spiders as they are lutes and unamplified guitars. Maybe. . . . There's just enough possibility for this to hapen, that I cautiously maintain hope.

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Jim . . . '72 Super 1300, '70, 1750GTV, 2nd series,
'62, Lancia Flaminia Zagato3c, 2nd series
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post #137 of 151 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 09:51 PM
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Thanks for sharing that clip Jim. It’s beautiful. What a stunning sounding guitar she is playing too. Making music is my other passion aside from cars.

I think there will be plenty of people maintaining interest in old cars in future. My 26 year old son for one. Look at the number of steam trains being restored and even built from scratch in the case of the two in England. There are heaps of warbirds, like Spitfires, being restored. In New Zealand they build WWW1 aircraft from scratch as well as WW2 stuff, like the two Mosquitoes. Here in South Australia there is massive interest in old cars. We have an annual run from the city to the motor museum in the hills that attracts more than one thousand classic vehicles one year and a similar number of veteran and vintage cars the next. My brother takes his 67 Mustang on summer cruises organised by his brother in law, that attracts around 400 American cars. We also have steam trains, traction engines, machines and paddle steamers here. There will always be people who like hands on old school stuff.

Current Alfas
2010 159 ti 1750 TBI sedan (red).
2004 GT 3.2 V6 (Stromboli Grey).
2008 159 TI Sportwagon 2.4 JTDM (Stromboli Grey).
1987 75 3 litre (red). My first 75 and now my son's.
2000 156 2 litre Twin Spark, ( Cosmos Blu metallic), my daughter's car.
2000 156 Monza Twin Spark, (Cosmos Blue metallic), sonís girlfiendís car.
1999 GTV 3 litre 24 valve V6, metallic black, (sonís new car).

Non Alfa
1988 Range Rover Classic Highline 3.9 V8

Past Alfas
1989 75 3 litre, written off by runaway van.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (black), now sold & living in Newcastle NSW.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (grey, sadly deceased due to fire).
1982 GTV 2 litre, red, (daughter's first Alfa)
2 x 1992 164s, (1 red, 1 grey).
2 x 1988 33s, (both red).
1985 GTV 2 litre, (white).
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post #138 of 151 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 11:47 AM Thread Starter
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Well, I have to admit now there may be an upside to help alleviate the boredom: https://www.maxim.com/rides/people-h...P9NaAjRP7BaEmQ
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post #139 of 151 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oz3litre View Post
I think there will be plenty of people maintaining interest in old cars in future. . . . There will always be people who like hands on old school stuff.
IMO, based on my 5 kids and all their friends - even though raised on brake bleeding and Italian tune-ups - those will be far, far fewer than today. And not enough to sustain sales. Poof. Once the well-off retired nostalgic boomer bubble bursts, there will be a vast oversupply, leaving depressed cars once again to rot. Add the other vectore and to me it is not a good picture. Again, just my opinion.
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post #140 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 02:51 PM Thread Starter
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Suggestion from a millenial I know is to convert our old cars to electric. The comments, though few mirror, this thread - old guys like our noisy polluting smelly dangerous cars. The person actually said they are looking forward to self-driving cars and they do not want their kids to learn how to drive. It will be "much safer". They acknowledge that a road full of self-driving cars will be incompatible with human driven cars. We discussed the moral dilemma of pre-programing how to kill things in lieu of other things. Like plowing a bus stop shelter (maybe sheltering concealed people) versus a head-on collision. This will take some kind of governmental indemnity. The death panel comes to the road. https://jalopnik.com/this-is-what-we...ars-1836612821

guillotineFI - feel free to explain WHY you think this thread has run its course or feel free to just check out of it.

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post #141 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 03:10 PM
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I don't think self driving cars will ever happen. Not because self driving will be impossible (which I think it is) but because self driving cars means more cars on our roads, which means more traffic jams, more energy wasted and more pollution and more global warming (please if you want to believe humans cannot affect where they live, can you take that view to the Global Warming thread).

If we are prepared for our driving to be regulated by Big Brother/Government then why not allow ourselves to be regulated into public transport ... which is effectively what a self driving car is.


All this money being spent on self driving cars should be diverted to answering the question on how to make effective and efficient public transport.
Pete
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post #142 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 03:24 PM Thread Starter
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I think the ultimate vision at least for cities and suburbs based on the informed discussion is indeed for mass public transit but in autonomous self-driven "pods", not personally owned cars. But perhaps personally owned self-driven cars could be plugged into the system. As explained, they can indeed fit many more commuting people in tighter spaces but deliver people to exact locations and do it quicker, just like vertical high density cities. All Agenda 2030 stuff. No need for carpool, bus depot or commuter-train parking lots as it picks you up and drops you off at your location, like an Uber. This is Jetson's stuff. You are talking about following distances in inches because these pods know what each other is doing, like rear-end crash avoidance but on steroids. Pods crossing intersections with inches between pods with no traffic lights to snarl traffic. Etc. There is no place in this scheme for human driven vehicles. Some yea-sayers are saying within 10 years in some urban places. I enjoy less and less driving into cities. Buses, bikes, pedestrians and gridlock make it a mess. Maybe this might work in the high density city. Not my cuppa in the countryside. I'm waiting to see the death hierarchy algorithms and subsequent governmental indemnity clauses.

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post #143 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 04:55 PM
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Perhaps we should blame the obsession with driverless cars on companies like Toyota for making cars and driving so boring that people would rather sit back and read a newspaper. An autonomous vehicle is the next level of boring from a Camry I think. Toyota will have achieved their ultimate purpose.
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Current Alfas
2010 159 ti 1750 TBI sedan (red).
2004 GT 3.2 V6 (Stromboli Grey).
2008 159 TI Sportwagon 2.4 JTDM (Stromboli Grey).
1987 75 3 litre (red). My first 75 and now my son's.
2000 156 2 litre Twin Spark, ( Cosmos Blu metallic), my daughter's car.
2000 156 Monza Twin Spark, (Cosmos Blue metallic), sonís girlfiendís car.
1999 GTV 3 litre 24 valve V6, metallic black, (sonís new car).

Non Alfa
1988 Range Rover Classic Highline 3.9 V8

Past Alfas
1989 75 3 litre, written off by runaway van.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (black), now sold & living in Newcastle NSW.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (grey, sadly deceased due to fire).
1982 GTV 2 litre, red, (daughter's first Alfa)
2 x 1992 164s, (1 red, 1 grey).
2 x 1988 33s, (both red).
1985 GTV 2 litre, (white).
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post #144 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 07:51 PM
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I’m firmly in the camp that says we will see self-driving vehicles in widespread use the next 10-20 years. Perhaps in urban areas only, perhaps also on interstate and similar roads.

Why? Because the rate at which we can collect and process data continues to increase at a rapid rate, combine that with machine learning and your working mobile data centre on wheels is almost here.
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1973 105 GTV (Alfa #6 of 19 owned)
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post #145 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 06:46 AM Thread Starter
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The point of this thread it that this is another of the many demographic, cultural, technological, and legislative/regulatory vectors pointing at, especially, old petrol-fueled cars, that will further restrict if not disallow our unfettered use of our old cars eventually limiting it to trailering our cars to rural driving tracks like most do to race courses nowadays. Urban milenials will not know how to drive cars. The government will take care of them, and us. Convert your old-timer to electric (above). Asking, "What is the future our cars, hobby, and passion?"

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post #146 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 12:46 PM
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With information processing becoming ever more sophisticated and invasive, it seems obvious that ideas like freedom and liberty along with individual expression will increasingly be seen as incompatible with political goals institutionalized within a surveillance state. This is something we're already seeing happen in China and, most recently, in Sacramento country which has recently ruled that working on your car in your home shop is unsustainable and therefore much be prohibited.

I like to think that, as with early music lute players (which number quite a number of 20 somethings), that the esthetic of old Alfas will continue to attract a fair number of new gearheads. But enjoyment of early music becomes impossible if lute makers are prohibited from working because to do so involves cutting down sacred trees. Similarly, if the surveillance state decides, as has already been suggested. that individual expression is "unsustainable" then Sacramento county's moral justification for stipulating the kinds and purposes of the tools you use to work on your car---which it has just done---is a entirely logical consequence. What the Sacramento county law just did, of course, is to make those cars like ours which we increasingly find must be serviced by us and us alone incompatible with the kind of society Sacramento politicians envision for their citizens. If there's nobody left we can trust to fix our cars and we're not allowed to fix them ourselves, then they'll just become dust covered ornaments in the forgotten corners of garages.

Jim . . . '72 Super 1300, '70, 1750GTV, 2nd series,
'62, Lancia Flaminia Zagato3c, 2nd series

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post #147 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 01:48 PM Thread Starter
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Besides the constant drip-drip-drip of busybody encroaching legs and regs on "old polluting dangerous dino-fueled cars" , and technology looking for an application (when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail and when you have technology everything looks like an app, even your car), the demographic and cultural implications alone point to their being unsustainable IMO. Fuel availability among increasing electric cars, indeed even premium fuel, capable mechanics and garages (ever try to find a old radiator repair place in the time of plastic plug and play), parts houses as numbers and demand diminishes, reasonable insurance for "unsafe old cars" compounded by driving in self-driven vehicles, restrictions of places to drive (a la Paris, cities in Holland, London, et al). And on and on as mentioned earlier in this thread. The question is only where and when will it become too difficult to own, maintain and use an older car. Did I say millenials, millenials, millenials? They just want a BJ in the back seat while commuting (hmmm, that might sell some of us). Of course we can move to China where they don't give a crap about environmentalism or Cuba where they will always have old cars. Maybe south America or Mexico. But IMO the western world is doomed w/r/t to them in 20 years..
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post #148 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
But IMO the western world is doomed w/r/t to them in 20 years..
Well, change doesn't play favorites so it's entirely possible that we'll see a resurgence social liberalism (the 19th century kind) that is a rejection of the kinds of repressive social policies that are being enacted in the name of "sustainability". In the meantime, the Hill Country beckons, the roads are largely deserted of other cars, my Super is running better than ever, and it only takes me about 15min to get Out There.

Jim . . . '72 Super 1300, '70, 1750GTV, 2nd series,
'62, Lancia Flaminia Zagato3c, 2nd series

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post #149 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-25-2019, 09:24 PM
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I have perfect Alfa driving hill country 15 minutes away too, along with some of Australia’s best wineries. We are indeed blessed Jim.

Current Alfas
2010 159 ti 1750 TBI sedan (red).
2004 GT 3.2 V6 (Stromboli Grey).
2008 159 TI Sportwagon 2.4 JTDM (Stromboli Grey).
1987 75 3 litre (red). My first 75 and now my son's.
2000 156 2 litre Twin Spark, ( Cosmos Blu metallic), my daughter's car.
2000 156 Monza Twin Spark, (Cosmos Blue metallic), sonís girlfiendís car.
1999 GTV 3 litre 24 valve V6, metallic black, (sonís new car).

Non Alfa
1988 Range Rover Classic Highline 3.9 V8

Past Alfas
1989 75 3 litre, written off by runaway van.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (black), now sold & living in Newcastle NSW.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (grey, sadly deceased due to fire).
1982 GTV 2 litre, red, (daughter's first Alfa)
2 x 1992 164s, (1 red, 1 grey).
2 x 1988 33s, (both red).
1985 GTV 2 litre, (white).
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post #150 of 151 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 05:42 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 180OUT View Post
Well, change doesn't play favorites so it's entirely possible that we'll see a resurgence social liberalism (the 19th century kind) that is a rejection of the kinds of repressive social policies that are being enacted in the name of "sustainability". In the meantime, the Hill Country beckons, the roads are largely deserted of other cars, my Super is running better than ever, and it only takes me about 15min to get Out There.
Indeed, and as you know it's right outside my back door. Got stuck behine this lot for quite a few miles on a narrow road the other day. See you for lunch in Blanco later today. Might as well enjoy them while we can. B
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