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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-26-2016, 10:58 AM
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It is probably pertinent to point out that the USA has a governmental structure more akin to the EU than is realised. It is a unified federation of states, each with its own identity, with a controlling central government in Washington. For better or worse, the European 'project' aims to achieve a similar objective, albeit without destructive revolutions or yet more continental wars. The world is smaller and more connected than it was even when I was a child, and it may be that long-held notions of sovereignty of smaller European countries become less relevant as time goes on. Who knows.

Could you imagine a United States that, for example, prevents people or goods or services moving across state lines?

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Last edited by Alex; 06-26-2016 at 11:00 AM.
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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-26-2016, 11:04 AM
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Sovereign states

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Originally Posted by Alex View Post
It is probably pertinent to point out that the USA has a governmental structure more akin to the EU than is realised. It is a unified federation of states, each with its own identity, with a controlling central government in Washington. For better or worse, the European 'project' aims to achieve a similar objective, albeit without destructive revolutions or yet more continental wars. The world is smaller and more connected than it was even when I was a child, and it may be that long-held notions of sovereignty of smaller European countries become less relevant as time goes on. Who knows.

Could you imagine a United States that, for example, prevents people or goods or services moving across state lines?
You mean like California with their border agricultural stations, and prohibitions against fois gras, etc?

Yeah, that would be horrible.

"Controlling" central government was not the original, nor current defining language for our federal government. However, it has become the modern interpretation. This is what power-centers do.... They seek to expand their control and power. Britain's rejection of this may prove prescient.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-26-2016, 11:31 AM
I don't think the states as a reflection of the EU model is accurate. The states grew out of an expansion of a seed population. Relatively homogeneous and while believing strongly in the rights of the individual were largely on the same page philosophically (well sort of). Europe it seems to me is enriched by its diversity of cultures and heritage and borders. It always seemed odd to me that Europe would be willing to give that up.
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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-26-2016, 01:43 PM
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Hi, I meant to start this post as how Brexit relates to the opportunity of buying Alfaholics and other companies parts at a discount, not as a whole for vs. against political discussion.

I am not British so I don't have a real dog in this race. However to those claiming it is all based upon racism xenophobia, stupid masses etc. Let me ask, "Do you leave the door to your house open for anyone to just walk in, do as they please, ask to live by their own house rules, welcomed or not? Vetted or not?" "Do you not believe in having sovereign states"?
I've learned to be quiet and content when threads start to take on a life of their own. We don't own the threads we start, after all.

The buying opportunity, if there is one, will likely be short. Markets always return to equilibrium sooner rather than later. I've been thrilled by the strength of the dollar over the past year or so, but trying to grab the recent plunge in the Pound or Euro is likely to be like trying to time the bottom in the stock market. "Like trying to catch a falling knife by the blade."

As for politics...

My view is that ideology misses the point. Whether or not a nation, or island, asserts its "sovereignty" is a concept more suited to feudal times. What we learn over and over again, however, is that justice and administration is more efficient and "just" the smaller it is, and the closer to that which is being tried or administrated.

I can call my local mayor or supervisors and make a change in their thinking. I can march into City Hall and get something fixed. I cannot get through to the President or any of my Senators or Representatives, ever. I cannot fathom trying to right a wrong when the responsible bureaucrat is in a different country, with a native language different than my own, and from a culture that views my ethical standards to be wrong, or worse.

I have many British friends. They are intelligent and not racist. They are fed up with having their lives yanked around by the peculiarities of bureaucrats in another country.

A related question...

Are you comfortable flying on an aircraft that was built requiring the British, French, and Germans to cooperate?
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Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-26-2016, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gprocket View Post
I don't think the states as a reflection of the EU model is accurate. The states grew out of an expansion of a seed population. Relatively homogeneous and while believing strongly in the rights of the individual were largely on the same page philosophically (well sort of). Europe it seems to me is enriched by its diversity of cultures and heritage and borders. It always seemed odd to me that Europe would be willing to give that up.
Agreed about the seed population. Altering a nation's characteristics would take a millenium, or a couple of generations of the likes of Kim Jong-Il, and nobody is aiming to give up those cultural, linguistic and social aspects of nationhood. It is worth remembering that, just as the US was forged out of the War of Independence and the Civil War, plus a couple of others, so the EU was a post-WW2 creation whose primary aim was to bind nations together so closely that they became inter-dependent and thus far less likely to wage devastating war on each other. So far, that has worked pretty well. I think that is one underlying, unspoken reason why so many people who wished to remain in the EU feel shocked that the UK voted to leave. It's not as though we were faced with a monstrous tyranny like we were in 1940.

Earlier today I read a very interesting and quite plausible theory which casts doubt on the UK's proposed exit from the EU at all - see here if anyone wants to read more.

Anyway, I'm with Jeremy Clarkson on this one. We've had a long weekend of amazement and considerable discussion, not to mention the drinking of rather a lot of wine. Tomorrow is Monday and it's time to roll up our sleeves and make the thing work.

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Last edited by Alex; 06-26-2016 at 01:50 PM.
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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-26-2016, 04:43 PM
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Reading that article and a couple others, I have to ask the question. Why do they make it seem that everything must change? Are there no working aspects of government that can remain in place during this transition?
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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-26-2016, 05:06 PM
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Spitfire - what an awesome name.
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A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them. - P.J. O'Rourke
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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-26-2016, 06:31 PM
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Thanks, I think. That could also be like patting an idiot on the back.

John
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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-26-2016, 10:01 PM
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Unfortunately while the Pound might go down relative to the US $ and NZ $ (I live in NZ) it will also go down versus the Lira and therefore Alfaholics, etc. will have to pay more for their parts (as I assume most are made in Italy).

End result is I doubt whether we will see any cost savings.

But most definitely we need these companies to stay around!
Pete

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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-27-2016, 12:49 AM
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Blimey, Pete, the Lira hasn't existed for about fifteen years! I keep a L5000 note in my wallet just for sentimental reasons, not in the expectation that I'll be able to spend it ....

But yes, you're right. Stock would have been bought from Europe at a certain rate, and it will be replenished at a less favourable rate. The moral of the story is invest heavily in parts now from these brilliant UK suppliers if you have a restoration project looming (or if your car is a keeper and you want to have the best quality items on the shelf for future maintenance), as it will save you significant money in the long term.

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Last edited by Alex; 06-27-2016 at 01:36 AM. Reason: grammar
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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-27-2016, 01:21 AM
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Blimey, Pete, the Lira hasn't existed for about fifteen years!
Oops

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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 06-27-2016, 01:59 AM
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I've already placed my order from the UK. i'm guessing once everybody gets used to it the markets will return to normal. I think it's just a knee jerk reaction. time will tell

cheers ian

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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-12-2016, 06:30 PM
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Hi, I meant to start this post as how Brexit relates to the opportunity of buying Alfaholics and other companies parts at a discount, not as a whole for vs. against political discussion.
I saved $50 on my parts order from Classic Alfa right after the Brexit! That's right 50 bucks. 50 clams. 50 greenbacks. The USD is also stronger against the Euro, and I think there's savings to be had all around. Wait till the Central Banks of Europe, and the UK stimulate they're economies. IE devalue their currencies a bit. A good time for Americans to travel and buy Alfa Parts. The US suppliers will also be buying with a strong dollar, and hopefully when current inventories clear out savings will be passed on.
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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-12-2016, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Alex View Post
It is probably pertinent to point out that the USA has a governmental structure more akin to the EU than is realised. It is a unified federation of states, each with its own identity, with a controlling central government in Washington. For better or worse, the European 'project' aims to achieve a similar objective, albeit without destructive revolutions or yet more continental wars. The world is smaller and more connected than it was even when I was a child, and it may be that long-held notions of sovereignty of smaller European countries become less relevant as time goes on. Who knows.

Could you imagine a United States that, for example, prevents people or goods or services moving across state lines?
You mean like California with their border agricultural stations, and prohibitions against fois gras, etc?

Yeah, that would be horrible.

"Controlling" central government was not the original, nor current defining language for our federal government. However, it has become the modern interpretation. This is what power-centers do.... They seek to expand their control and power. Britain's rejection of this may prove prescient.
Yeah agricultural inspections are do onerous aren't they?
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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-12-2016, 07:02 PM
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The exchange rate looks good unless you look at the rate you are actually paying after the credit card company is done with you.
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