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post #16 of 99 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 08:13 AM
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Snippet of 2011 rankings, from most violence to least:

1. Louisiana
2. Tennessee
3. Nevada
4. Florida
5. Alabama
6. Texas
7. Arkansas
8. Oklahoma
9. South Carolina
10. Maryland

Maybe we should be asking- where is the South headed? Yikes.

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post #17 of 99 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 08:29 AM
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Interesting chart, possibly misleading.

Interesting chart, possibly misleading.

I know for certain that Nevada and Alaska both have most of their population concentrated in just a few urban centers.
I am in Nevada, the vast majority of our crime takes place in Las Vegas (Over 60% of our population) and Reno (Another 20% or so).
These are our large urban centers.
I spend as little time in either as possible.
If Las Vegas were taken out of the equation I doubt Nevada would even appear in your list.

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post #18 of 99 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by 1,6 HF View Post
One place I hiope we're not headed is yet another uselessly provocative political thread. Please stop this.

I for one am seriously concerned with our erosion of "Civility" on this forum.
Ed, please stop looking for a car wreck Its called "off topic", not "civil kumbaya corner".

Todays toy count: 2012 Challenger, 97 SVT Cobra conv, 74 BMW r60/6, 52 Chevy Styleline Deluxe, (last of 12 previous Alfa's now gone).

Last edited by RC Hiatt; 01-05-2013 at 02:31 PM. Reason: Laying down in the middle of the freeway is not wise.
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post #19 of 99 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 09:45 AM
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Glad to be from Maine.
A few years ago there was a short lived trend of "home invasions", mostly perpetrated by low lifes from Boston area.
As most people here have guns, or their neighbors do, most of these home invasions were unsuccessful, and seemed to have stopped. Our one small city Portland, has a bit of violence, but Maine people are not "Look away" bystanders, and these violent individuals get caught most of the time.
Do I have a gun? No, unless you count my ancestors musket. Do I have skills to subdue invaders,yes.
My girl has a gun for home protection, has had it since long before we were together, and when I'm away on trips, it gives me solace to know she can defend herself if needs be.

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post #20 of 99 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 10:20 AM
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There is a very interesting book by Dr Keirsey titled "Please understand me, too". It is a study of personality types, and based on long established and validated studies. In essence, a great deal of our personalities, ie "preferences" are genetic and largely fixed from birth. Others form during our early years and persist for life. Of the 4 primary types, the "guardians" represent about 60% of the population. Guardians believe life is all about rules, regulations, and traditions, and naysayers should be punished. Tubut's most recent apology hints at his Guardian response to others (under his supervision?) getting out of control.

The other three types, Idealist, Artisan, and Rational are more inclined to guide their own lives rather than be mindless slaves to others' requirements. Rationales, in particular, prefer autonomy above all else.

Under the Keirsey model, it does little good to argue about the right and wrong of something like gun control. One's need for self reliance or a bias toward "the state" is largely a personality trait, and not really a case of right and wrong.

In the end, we will have more freedom and chaos, or less freedom and less chaos.

I prefer the former.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #21 of 99 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 11:16 AM
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In this case, less freedom = More chaos!

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In the end, we will have more freedom and chaos, or less freedom and less chaos.
In this case, less freedom = More chaos!

Read "More Guns = Less Crime" and the follow-up studies by professor John Lott.

Or simply look at the statistics for Chicago and their draconian (ruled unconstitutional too!) restrictions on the RKBA* vs almost anywhere else with less severe restrictions.
Chicago had over 500 shooting last year, despite virtually NO ONE except certain politicians or celebrities and their hired guns or police being allowed arms for protection.

*RKBA, Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

Twin-Cam Hemi, Webers, Headers, Overdrive, Disc brakes, and no emissions equipment to spoil it all. These are gonna be FUN rides!
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post #22 of 99 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPeterson3 View Post
In the end, we will have more freedom and chaos, or less freedom and less chaos.
And which one would you say provides more protection for minorities and the weak? And, should such protection even be provided, or should society leave everybody to fight for themselves?

-Ruedi
[SIZE="1"]'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, the car in my avatar, sold as resto project to Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).[/SIZE]
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post #23 of 99 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 12:46 PM
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Ruedi,

You may be close, but not quite getting my point...

Chaos, by itself, is not a bad thing. In fact, there is a strong argument that most significant human and technical advancements have come in response to crisis and conflict. "Protection" as a goal can and is often counter productive. It makes the do-gooders feel good, but there is a good argument that protection, as a goal, simply makes the protected weaker and less able to fend for themselves.

So - I personally side with the view that "the state" should provide much less protection than it attempts to do today, and that over time this would result in more people developing the skills to protect themselves. The word "protect" of course meaning food, housing, education, etc, and not something limited to guns, violence, etc.

Just like the four primary personality/preference types, societies will always struggle to find the right balance. We would destroy ourselves if either the left or right successfully got rid of the other. We would destroy ourselves if the Guardians of the world vanquished the Rationals. Thus, it makes no sense to label one preference or the other good vs bad. They are all yin to the other's yang.

The pendulum swings. I believe we've swung too far to being a nanny state, and that our freedoms are eroding. With the freedom to succeed or fail comes innovation. Without the freedom to succeed or fail we have only toil. Innovation is what truly provides an improving protection for all of a nation's citizens, not the artificial protections and props delivered by the elected officials in exchange for the votes by the lowest common denominator of its citizens.

The right to keep and bear arms is a symbol. By itself, the private ownership and carriage of arms accomplishes little. However, the right gives our citizens a sense of empowerment. Once a citizenry loses its sense of empowerment, we become subjects to a throne, and our brains and motivation will gradually expire.

Don P
Carson City, NV

Past Alfas...
59 102 Touring (first Alfa $500 running)
65 Sprint GT (2nd Alfa, $500 daily driver)
102 Sprint (never did anything with it, but wish I had)
74 Berlina (first new car - now certainly rusted into oblivion)
61 Giulietta Spider G-Prod Race Car (where is it now?)
84 Spider Veloce (rarely drove it, so sold it)
86 Quadrifoglio (Dull car - no more 115s for me)
1971 Montreal "The Full Monty". Fair winds and following seas

Current Alfas
59 102 Touring Roadster - restoration complete, enough Alfa for any rational man. Or irrational, for that matter
Oops. Add to the "present" list, 10204 01488, 2000 Touring Roadster project

And past...
Two 1946 Stampe SV4C (c/n 294 "Rocinante" - wife's favorite airplane. RIP), and c/n 235 "La Bon Temps Femme" (gone to a new home, but never forgotten)
Zlin 50LA (+9 -6 gees, titanium spar, 1200 lbs, 260HP rumored to now be in Brazil)
1946 Luscombe 8A
Starduster Too (recently spotted at the Nevada City, CA airport - over 20 years and an entire continent separating it from our stewardship in Binghamton, NY)
1955 Cessna 170B (wife taught me to fly tailwheel in this)

And present...
64 Mooney M20E ("Rambo". My faithful steed for over 40 years) Over 55 years old, and just returned from a trip to Argentina in him
Newest in the fleet
1967 Piper Super Cub on Wipline amphibious floats (a true "all terrain vehicle")
2010 Triumph Thunderbird


You can snap roll an Alfa only one time...
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post #24 of 99 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 03:05 PM
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Just placed my order for the book Don, and Presidential Temperament as well. Sounds like Dr. Keirsey has some interesting theories! Thanks for the tip!

Todays toy count: 2012 Challenger, 97 SVT Cobra conv, 74 BMW r60/6, 52 Chevy Styleline Deluxe, (last of 12 previous Alfa's now gone).
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post #25 of 99 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 03:49 PM
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Get the CD, "Racist Roots of gun control"!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubut View Post
And which one would you say provides more protection for minorities and the weak? And, should such protection even be provided, or should society leave everybody to fight for themselves?
Modern gun control did not get too far in America until the advent of "Jim Crow" laws.
The "Gun Control Act of 1968" was taken almost verbatim from a certain pre-W.W. II German weapons law passed by a political party I'm probably not allowed to mention. Their leader was democratically elected.

What do minorities think of it?
A couple of quotes,

It is criminal to teach a man not to defend himself when he is the constant victim of brutal attacks. It is legal and lawful to own a shotgun or a rifle. We believe in obeying the law. - Malcolm X, March 12, 1964.

Gun control has cleared the way for seven major genocides since 1915, in which governments gone bad murdered 56,000,000 persons, including millions of children. - Aaron Zelman, Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership.

Twin-Cam Hemi, Webers, Headers, Overdrive, Disc brakes, and no emissions equipment to spoil it all. These are gonna be FUN rides!
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post #26 of 99 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 04:57 PM
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Stats? Choose your own crime stats!

Comparing apples to apples.
This was just sent to me a minute ago.

Looks like I was right about large cities!
No surprise, years of experience are rarely wrong.


Twin-Cam Hemi, Webers, Headers, Overdrive, Disc brakes, and no emissions equipment to spoil it all. These are gonna be FUN rides!
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post #27 of 99 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 05:27 PM
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If a thread, like this is now, can survive and be an outlet, a release for Alfisti,,,,
I would say yes. keep it open.
Don't go to the baiting, on purpose inflammatory posts,,,,
And we can enjoy a lively, fun, informative,,
and bonding,,
Off topic place to expound upon our other, non Alfa, thoughts and feelings.
Just keep it non abrasive, more new info- thought provoking type conversation.
That we can benefit from, and enjoy, and take with the proverbial Grain of Salt.
Cogitate on and respond,,
in the Spirit that was intended.

The " Save the Rusty Alfa Society"
43 Alfas at the moment [ I think], I'll be able to tell better when the snow melts

Last edited by HeavyMetalAlfa; 01-05-2013 at 05:30 PM.
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post #28 of 99 (permalink) Old 01-05-2013, 06:25 PM
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Just keep it non abrasive, more new info- thought provoking type conversation.
That we can benefit from, and enjoy, and take with the proverbial Grain of Salt.
Cogitate on and respond,,
in the Spirit that was intended.
[/QUOTE]

Glenn, I think you mean well but this just feels like a poke. I don't think I or anybody else has said anything here that is the least bit inflamatory. The off topic forum is not an intellectual waste dump that needs the constant oversight of fussy moderators. So what gives? Are you already getting complaints? Does getting a complaint automatically trigger an investigation/admonishment by a moderator? Didn't we just have a long discussion about this stuff?

I'm not sure I even want to continue, now.

Jim . . . '72 Super 1300, '70, 1750GTV, 2nd series,
'62, Lancia Flaminia Zagato3c, 2nd series

Last edited by 180OUT; 01-05-2013 at 06:49 PM.
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post #29 of 99 (permalink) Old 01-06-2013, 08:36 AM Thread Starter
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now that you are all about sharing, how about telling us how to "drop" a spindle?
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post #30 of 99 (permalink) Old 01-06-2013, 09:38 AM
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I don't know how you could consider that a 'poke' or what that even means. I guess I'll keep my thoughts to myself.

The " Save the Rusty Alfa Society"
43 Alfas at the moment [ I think], I'll be able to tell better when the snow melts
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