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Moving to S Cal with 87 Spider. Need advice.

13K views 130 replies 14 participants last post by  jmnegrin 
#1 ·
Hi People,

Searched "smog test" with no results. Will be coming to LA by next February and thinking ahead of it all......have a 87 spider with no mods except a home made AAV valve (choke cable/heater line valve). Whats the deal with smog testing out there? Do I have a good chance to pass? If not, man, Im gonna have to store the car at home in FL...

Thanks, People.
Sr
 
#2 · (Edited)
Moving to S Cal with 87 Spider, Need Advice



What prompts the short-term move?

An 87 spider will have to be smogged. There are a few around. I have a friend that is probably not going to bring his 78 in because it has all the things California looks for removed. The rolling smog stopped at '75, I believe. So '75 or below would be exempt after initial inspection and registration anything else has to follow the rules.

Here's a link for starters: Smog Information

then search for bringing a car in from out of state and there may be other additional information available. Since DMV's are on furlough Friday's here because of the budget impasse, they are impacted and not terribly helpful all the time.

If it's not a permanent move, you might be able to leave the Florida plates on it for the time you're here as a visitor, for example, if your company transfers you out here for 3-6 months for a special project or something like that. You might look into that and see if there's a provision.
 
#3 ·
Thanks, Pat, loads of info on that site. Time to study. Oh, Its actually for my son who will be starting film career/internship in LA upon graduation. Kinda permanent, I figure. Yeah, I wish I could keep it as FL plate, not sure what the time limit is.

I'll let you know what happens.

Sr
 
#4 ·
....I wish I could keep it as FL plate, not sure what the time limit is.

I'll let you know what happens.

Sr
Once you establish residence in our fare state, you are suppose to register your vehicle(s) within 10 days. But there is an out. As long as you don't get some kind of traffic citation in the car on a California drivers license, when you finally do register your vehicle, tell the clerk you just brought it into the state. Just remember to not do the smog test/check before you're ready to register.
 
#7 ·
Hmm, I really think this will work, geh.

Oh, I read Pat's link (wasnt too long), and it clearly says [the alfa 87 spider] is NOT exemp from testing. Not that you said so....just heard from others that it MAY be exempt. No such luck. A car is exempt if older than 1975 year......
 
#5 ·
It's not too bad to get a fuel injected Spider to pass smog, provided your cat converter is up to snuff. If you have any concerns about that you might want to get the emissions tested in FL and get the cat converter replaced *before* you come to CA: per a recent CA law aftermarket cats are fairly tightly controlled here and you can't just slap in one of the more inexpensive ones, you need an OEM-type CA-approved model.

Depending how clued in and/or picky the smog tech is, you will quite possibly fail the visual inspection due to your modified AAV. Doesn't matter if it passes the emissions or not: mods like that are not allowed. Might want to pop in an original AAV to be safe.
 
#6 ·
Thaks, Gub and Geh. Yeah, I wanted to get an emissions test here in FL years ago but no luck, even if I anted to pay for it AND it had not been mandatory for years. All the equipment went obsolete/out of use, I was told.

So you mean my son should get a Ca lisence asap when arriving but not register? That could work for me as long as not pushing the law too badly........Have to read up on Pat's link for sure....no time today though.

A Ca cat, huh? Man, who sells them? Alfa suppliers in CA? Guessing they cost a bit, huh?
Thanks!!!!!!!
 
#8 ·
My suggestion, since the car will be in S. Calif, is to take it to Santo's and let him handle it.
After visiting a number of "certified smog locations" and having nothing but grief, I have done this will all of my Alfa's.
Santos will take care of whatever is legally necessary to pass the test, and then get it smogged for you.
An absolute no-brainer!
 
#12 ·
Maybe I should call this santo up and discuss ahead of time. There is nothing modified on my alfa...just like I said, the AAV is gone (I actually still have the old one in the drawer, HeHe), and I made a home made one, but exhaust should come out like a stock alfa, of course.

Wonder what is costs for Santo to check it out? I like no brainers, like lawrence said......
 
#11 ·
Funny AAA told me 10 days earlier this year when I brought my GTV in from out of state. On the smog topic I have personal experience that if the tech is diligent enough to see something not stock then they won't even test it. Letting an Alfa mechanic that can do smog handle it sounds like good advice to me.
 
#14 ·
Moving to S Cal with 87 Spider, Need Advice



I think this is the difference, if you buy or purchase a car you have 10 days; if you bring an out of state car in you have 20 days. My guess, Triple A automatically quotes the lower figure or assumes you are talking about a purchase.

I concur on smog, especially with an Alfa, you need to have someone that you can rely on if you have trouble and that knows what they're doing as well as knows the law. With Pat's knowledge he was often able to talk reason to the DMV or CHP guys; your son may not have the same skill.
 
#15 ·
Keep the Fl plates, registration, driver's license as long as you can. If you don't have to get an inspection in Florida and just have to send them your payment to renew, keep the plates. Fly back to renew the driver's license, if you have to get a picture taken. Keep the less expensive Florida insurance (if it is cheaper).

If you want to go through the hassle of doing the change right away, smog testing shouldn't be difficult. Probably best to establish residency first, then smog. If you don't/can't pass go to a gold shield testing station, go through the process and have the state pay for your smog repairs. Since you haven't really modified the car, put on the original AAV, smog it, pass, change it back. Or, not that I'm saying you should, find a place and have it passed.;)

I wouldn't worry about being pulled over for out of state plates, especially in LA/Hollywood. SOOO many cars around here with out of state plates, obviously current Ca. residents (Arizona, Alaska, Hawaii, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Illinois, Georgia, Texas, Florida... to name a few). This all changes if you get a ticket etc, but if both plates and license are still Florida probably not (since you're just visiting). I kept my old plates for about a year. Don't get the new license until you have found a place to live that you're happy and comfortable with. Pain in the butt to have to change your address on the license if you move after a few months.

Get Trapster for your Iphone or whatever mobile phone you have. It will show where where most all of the redlight cameras are (watch the the little crosswalk guys for the countdown, so you don't get hit with an outrageous ticket). Don't worry about all the helicopters, you'll get used to them at night. Don't be surprised when asked about the earthquake or fire in the LA area, that you have no idea about, by someone from out of state. Its a fairly large area, and you either won't see the fire or have felt the earthquake (you may see the sunlight change to an orange color and see or smell the smoke, doubtful though). Do keep a working flashlight and a pair of shoes by the bed (for the earthquakes and broken glass).:)

Btw, it was easier to use "you" for both you and your son, then go back and correct everything.
 
#19 ·
If you want to go through the hassle of doing the change right away, smog testing shouldn't be difficult. Probably best to establish residency first, then smog. If you don't/can't pass go to a gold shield testing station, go through the process and have the state pay for your smog repairs.
Too Much, shadow, you mean someone else can pay for my repair ifn it dont pass???!!! hey alfa forum members, why didnt yous mention this before....LOL!

Gold Shield Testing Station.....hmm, dont tell me you need to be on Govt assistance income/welfare to be able to qualify.......

Im gonna look for that website, shadow.........(lets see, mumbling, slowly: g-o-l-d s-h-i-e-l-d.....)
 
#17 ·
Thanks again, people. So much advice....one should be that lucky. So, yeah, insurance is something not to fool with. I need to get "santo's" #....anybody know? Where's Santo?? (no pun relating to game on back of cereal boxes).......

What could Santo charge for an inspection/quality control check?

LA move should not be "temporary". It will be a job/internship. Once the smog test passes/is dealt with., I have no problem doing things right (registering/residents lisence). I dont like messing with cops/inventing stories/etc, and dont advise it to a younger guy starting out in a foreign land.....LOL

Hey, Thanks for the invitation for joining the local club there. Maybe if he has time from the film studio he could get away (that schedule sure would be easier than film school, for sure!!)

Regards,
J P Sr
 
#20 ·
The number to Santo's Italian Car Service is: 1-818-701-1614 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              1-818-701-1614      end_of_the_skype_highlighting. They are in Northridge, California. You can also try a Private Message (PM) to "ITALCARGUY". The website is: Santo's Italian Car Service

Hope this helps, they've always done right by me.
Got it...thanks, Geh.
 
#21 ·
Hey Joe,

You asked who carries a Calif.-approved cat, I got mine from Kragen Auto Parts. It's a "free-flow" model made by Magnaflow. The cat will have to have the all important "EO" number that shows it is approved by the Executive Officer of the California Air Resources Board.
 
#23 ·
I really don't have a dog in this hunt but, if I may, I'd like to offer another suggestion. Unless you have an emotional attachment to your '87, I suggest selling it and replacing it with an earlier Spider that will be exempt from getting smog checked. Reading this makes me glad I live in Texas. :)
 
#24 ·
Nah, that would not make sense. He'd have to sell the '87 and then spend more to get a '75 or earlier in the same sort of shape.

Smog check is every two years, and like I said it's not too bad to get an EFI Spider to pass.
 
#26 ·
LOL....Texas.....gees, thats so far away from Disney!! Also, too many rattle snakes...LOL

Thanks, people, for the info. Me and my son will NOT sell that alfa for another . Tooooo much invested/too much stuff working just right after all our dedicated work. hehe, that thing was in dire need of care when we got it, and now to sell it..........One thing about these S3's, they start every time.

Great to hear any potential fixes can be fixed for free. I will look into this more on that site.

Thanks, also, Slash, for the info on the cat. Good to know that.

remember, its not until this coming January, so it will be a while....its just good to study in advance.

Thanks!
Joe
 
#27 ·
Oh, by the way, the Magnaflow cat I got from Kragen had to have a section fabricated to go from the down-pipes to the muffler. It is not a bolt-on direct-fit piece.

Let us know how it turns out!
 
#32 ·
OK, thanks, gub. Now, I wonder how I never got aroun to asking this basic question, and yes, I can research it out, but figure easier to get it from the members here with a simple post:

1) How many times is one required to do a Smog test in Cal?
2) With the Gold Sheild program, is one roped into a different situation, like, if you go for a gold sheild repair, will one have to do 2 smog tests a year? Once every 2 yrs?

I did read it, and kinda hard to decipher sometimes.....

Thanks a million, people.
 
#38 ·
...

1) How many times is one required to do a Smog test in Cal?
2) With the Gold Sheild program, is one roped into a different situation, like, if you go for a gold sheild repair, will one have to do 2 smog tests a year? Once every 2 yrs?

I did read it, and kinda hard to decipher sometimes....
1 smog test every 2 years.

When you get your notice to renew, it will state on the notice, weather or not you are required to have your car smogged. It will also show if you are required to smog at a "Test Only" station, or if you can go to any place that can do a your smog test. Test only places are not allowed to do any repairs on your car, or supposed to be associated with a shop that can repair your car. Gold Shield places are a little different, in that you can do "Test Only" and they can do the required repairs to make your car smog compliant. These places have the required certification to do these repairs (they paid to get it). The only thing that would make it a different situation, is if you are trying to get the state to help pay for what is necessary to make your car smog compliant (most likely easier to use a Gold Shield station).

So, looks like 36511 is more of the stock choice here, right? (I do have headers on the engine). This is all in being prepared to know what to do in case I do need one. Dont want to scramble at last minute out in LA on this.......
Uh-Oh now you're screwed, you have headers! Your car is illegal. Using a two piece manifold makes you illegal as well. :eek: If you need a new one only thing you can do is put on the old manifold and original downpipes and cat!:rolleyes:

How handy is your son with the tools? Until he builds up a relationship of trust with a shop out here, meaning they know he isn't working for the state trying to catch them doing something naughty, most will not do anything that involves modification or removal of any legally required smog equipment. They do not want to risk losing their license or get fined. This does not mean however, that they can't do what is necessary to make your car legally compliant while on their property, at the same time making it so that you can easily change things out on your own, somewhere other than their shop.

If your Cat is fresh new and working, wouldn't bother changing it unless you have to. You have the O2 sensor still? You're going to need that to be legal and tested.

You could get it setup before the move, to have a provision in the system, to swap out cat or straight pipe (hollow cat), with a "Ca. certified legal" cat before its out here. Still illegal, but probably legal looking enough.

Easy enough to find an exhaust shop out here that can find you an "inexpensive" Ca. legal universal cat and put it in. Only have to make sure they install with flanges or slipfit pipes so its easier to do whatever you want on your own, otherwise they will usually cut it out and weld it in.

FWIW, I believe that most all of the cats including the 49 state versions can still pass the CA. required specs. Its a matter of weather or not the manufacturer wanted to go through the hassle of getting the required certification and little numbers engraved on the outside of the new Ca. cats. Passing on the extra cost on to you. Example can be seen with the IAP cats available (not badmouthing IAP on this, its a Ca. certification thing (although it could probably be made and sold for less money:))). An almost $100 difference to get, most likely the same cat, with some stupid numbers engraved on it.
 
#37 ·
Yeah, the 36511 is the stock choice, but it is expensive. The Magnaflow list price is somewhere north of $1,000. The list price of the universal cat is over $400, but I got mine for about $125. I don't know what the "over-the-counter" price would be on 36511.
 
#40 ·
No, headers probably don't effect emissions much at all, but it doesn't matter. You're not allowed to modify anything unless the replacement part has been certified in CA.

Now, if stuff *looks* stock it can pass. It depends how clued-in your smog guy is about what's stock and what's not: remember, these guys aren't Alfa experts. But you makes your mods, you takes your chances. Personally I try to keep everything as stock as possible.

Unless it's been run rich or seen a ton of miles a 2004 converter should still be good, no question. Only way to tell for sure is with an emissions tester, though.
 
#41 ·
I ‘m with shadowburn on waiting to register in CA. When I moved to LA 9 yrs ago I kept my MA plates and license for a year without incident while I decided whether or not I was staying. About 6 months in I was stopped at a DUI check point and upon seeing my plates they only asked me if I’d just moved to CA, mentioned that I would need to register it here soon and sent me on my way.

Your FL insurance surely covers you in while you are “visiting” other states and until your son is settled and sure he wants to stay in LA (it’s not for everyone and takes time to know that) I’d give it at least a few months. Assuming he doesn’t accumulate an incriminating trail of moving violations and parking tickets in CA, no one will know how long he’s been here.

As for smogging- I recently bought a ’92 spider. The dealer I bought it from admitted the day I came to finalize the paperwork and pick up the car that oops, he did not have a current smog cert for the car (btw it’s illegal to sell one w/out it here, the jerk ) but he was confident it would pass.
I had my doubts since my mechanic who did my PPI noted the car needed a new catalytic converter.

Conveniently there was a Test Only station right next door to the dealer. We had it tested and it failed. We then went to a nearby mechanic who installed an aftermarket cat and about 1 hour and $297 later –parts+labor (dealer paid of course) the car had a new cat. And it passed smog. It was not a big deal and while I was not happy about waiting around while all this was sorted out, in the end I was surprised how easily the issue was resolved. Relatively cheap aftermarket cats as shadowburn mentioned are easy to come by here.

Perhaps you can simply swap out the header in preparation for the move but wait until he’s in CA to do the rest until he’s settled in? As mentioned, any alfa shop: Santos, Johns Alfa, etc. can help prepare the car to pass or refer you to a good muffler shop who can quickly set you up with an aftermarket cat. And it is possible that it may not need anything.

Another note: Make sure your suspension is in top notch condition. LA street surfaces are officially the worst in the country and deteriorating as I write. I have family in Fl and I’m always shocked by the contrast when I visit. Florida roads seem like glass to me. If anything is not up to par with your spider’s suspension it can make getting around LA very unpleasant.
 
#42 ·
Thaks, gubi and jullian. I like stock too. Im gonna look for a stock manifold...probably on car-part.com. Less things to worry about once hes out there. As far as staying there, hes probably gonna stay cuz thats the movie business heart. Still, may delay registration as long as it seems appropriate..
 
#43 ·
Joe,
You have gotten some great advise here. I would try to get that stock manifold back on before the move. There is an amount of time involved ($) that you don't need to be paying to a shop out here.
I wouldn't worry about the Cat. Here's how Santo handled the smog issue on my 90 Quad. He took it to the smog shop he uses, and they discovered a bad cat. They then took it to the muffler shop and had an aftermarket cat installed, and returned it to the smog inspection.
Done deal! The next day I had my smog certificate. User friendly. Plug and Play.
I might have saved some money doing the legwork myself. Maybe three or four dollars! And perhaps it still might not have passed.
Your son will have steeper mountains to climb. Having been in the Film & TV business for over 35 years, I can attest to that.
 
#44 ·
Thanks, Lawrence. Good to have a continuous interest in out plight. People like you (and the others of course) go far in easing our tribulations.

Im convinced the stoc manifold is a must. Only thing is I wont be able to do the whole job, as I dont have a welder. No bigee, big item is getting the manifold, of course.

Now, you say you were in the film business/ Cool, Man! Are you still? I need to have my little boy talk to you, if possible. Alfa's and film.......a good combo, eh? (he's almost done with his "final exam thesis movie"). I'll be one of the credits, hehe. Not to hijack the thread.

Santo and stock manifold. Got it.
 
#45 ·
If you get the manifold, you're also going to need the downpipes. Get both of them used, cut off the old cat, slipfit in a new one, and may be possible you won't really need a welder. Depends on how the header mated up to the rest of the system, and if the pipes are way off from where they would be compared to stock.

If he finds Santos too far, he has other choices. Being in LA/Hollywood, he'll be lucky, as he'll have a small network of ALFA mechanics around the area. He'll also have ALFA Italia, Omega Motorsports, ALFA Milano, and my personal favorite, Benny at John's ALFA Romance.

While changing your setup back to stock is a little more insurance that there won't be a problem with smog/registration, its no guarantee. If your current setup is working, with a cat and O2 sensor, if it was brought into any of these ALFA mechanics to get smogged, they will probably use there favorite smog place, and it will probably pass visually (not talking about having it "passed"). Even if he brought it into a place himself, I bet it would pass. For the most part, the people at these smog places are not really familiar with ALFAs at all. My experience anyway. Last time I went, they still put a stick in the gas filler to make sure it still had the restriction for unleaded fuel only. Seriously, where the hell do they even sell leaded fuel in California, let alone the rest of the states. They looked to see if there was an O2 sensor, but not if it was actually connected. Didn't even care or know there was a 2 piece manifold in place of the 1 piece. Oh, every time I go to get smogged, I am told my timing is off if I pass or don't pass! I just say, "really?" and walk away.
 
#46 ·
Thanks, Shadow. Yeah, not being sure where Santo was (other than in back of cereal box), I asked about him, but if there are other helpful mahcs near Hollywood, better yet. Good advice on the smog techs.....they dont see many alfas, Im sure. Even cops, once one asked me "what kind of car is that"?

Didnt know about down pipes. Sounding like a project/other variables to consider. I may take a chance and have my son see one of the "guys" and have them smog it. Theres something to be said about one stop shopping, eh?

Now, IF it fails, done they give you say, some time to fix all? 2 weeeks? a year (LOL)??

Oh, gees, on the tip of the exhause is one of those fat Borla tips (chrome plated, 4" diameter, maybe 18" long), not the stock plumbers pipe, Is that a no no?

Thanks, Shadow.
 
#47 ·
Joe,
I don't think the tip will make a difference. That seems to be one area that is "free."
Santo's shop is in Northridge in the San Fernando Valley. That's about 25 minutes from Hollywood on a good day.
The shop your son uses will depend a lot on where he ends up working/living. A great majority of TV/film production is no longer done in Hollywood, but rather out in the valley. Hollywood, in general, is not a great place to work or live. But he will have a lot of choices out here.
Yes, I am still in the business. Shooting "The Price Is Right" and "Melissa & Joey," a sitcom for ABC family channel. Price is in Hollywood, M&J in the valley.
I would be glad to talk with your son when he gets here, give him a tour of the studio... He can check out what I have been doing under Keeth Lawrence on my IMBD page.
...Keeth
 
#51 ·
Joe,
I don't think the tip will make a difference. That seems to be one area that is "free."
Santo's shop is in Northridge in the San Fernando Valley. That's about 25 minutes from Hollywood on a good day.
The shop your son uses will depend a lot on where he ends up working/living. A great majority of TV/film production is no longer done in Hollywood, but rather out in the valley. Hollywood, in general, is not a great place to work or live. But he will have a lot of choices out here.
Yes, I am still in the business. Shooting "The Price Is Right" and "Melissa & Joey," a sitcom for ABC family channel. Price is in Hollywood, M&J in the valley.
I would be glad to talk with your son when he gets here, give him a tour of the studio... He can check out what I have been doing under Keeth Lawrence on my IMBD page.
...Keeth[/QUOTE

Thanks Keeth for the gracious invitation! (PM on its way.....)
 
#49 ·
Like Keeth said, tip shouldn't make a difference. From the cat back, they don't really seem to care. One muffler, two or even no mufflers, glasspacks or fart cans, it really doesn't seem to matter when smogging. Cops may at some point, if your pumping out some serious decibel levels, but its amazing how loud some of the vehicles are, without being pulled over.

Not too sure about all the nuances of what happens if you can't pass smog. Somebody else might chime in and give some good info. From what I understand though, if you've done everything possible to get your car to where it should pass and it still doesn't, I believe there is some kind of waiver that may allow you to still drive. If you don't pass, you have up to at least the time of when your plate tags expire, before you have real problems with being pulled over etc.

Cool, nice review for Benny!
 
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