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  Topic Review (Newest First)
07-14-2019 06:18 PM
Eman911 I finally have the car in a semblance of readiness, so I took it to a local Autox. It performed almost flawlessly with the biggest problem being the charger for the GoPro didn't work. I was not the fastest or the slowest Alfa there, I guess 2nd out of 3 will have to do. I don't mind finishing behind a new Giulia QV4. Now for some serious testing!
04-15-2019 05:52 AM
Eman911 Fellow racers- I find myself in need of a right rear Spider caliper rebuildable core. Got any laying around?
09-29-2018 08:27 AM
GregSef
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eman911 View Post
Looks good! I'm going to test mine next week.
https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/att...mentid=1528196

Same idea, slightly different execution.
Great minds think alike...

It looks great. Where are you running the car?


Greg
09-28-2018 07:35 PM
archeologist
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregSef View Post
I am in the middle of prepping my Milano (Angelina) for the next LeMons race at New Hampshire Motor Speedway (NHMS) I spent some time going over the transaxle and thought I was done but at the last minute had a thought that I should take a look at the clutch cover that has been in the car for about 6-8 years and about 12k racing miles. Lo and behold there were 3 tiny imperceptible cracks propagating around the nose of the clutch cover. In my GTV6 I have experienced the clutch cover breaking while the motor is wound up and it is frighteningly violent.

So I decided to bite the bullet and develop a clutch cover reinforcing girdle like some of the ones I've seen in pictures. It bolts in and fits without any modification to the cross member, all that is required is to machine a diameter on the nose of the cover. Here are some pictures of the build in process.

I don't have the time inclination to make more than the 3 I have made but Andy at Performatek is going to be taking the project over so if anyone is interested in them contact him.

Now onto engine management...

Greg
That's a great idea!

But if it doesn't work out I hear that there will also be Pumpkin Chunkin at NH. Go tell the Chunk Norris team you want to fling your broken transaxle far far away.

OK poor attempt at humor. But Lemons and Punkin Chunkin really should figure out how to do something together.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
09-28-2018 07:33 PM
Eman911 Looks good! I'm going to test mine next week.
https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/att...mentid=1528196

Same idea, slightly different execution.
09-28-2018 06:46 PM
GregSef I am in the middle of prepping my Milano (Angelina) for the next LeMons race at New Hampshire Motor Speedway (NHMS) I spent some time going over the transaxle and thought I was done but at the last minute had a thought that I should take a look at the clutch cover that has been in the car for about 6-8 years and about 12k racing miles. Lo and behold there were 3 tiny imperceptible cracks propagating around the nose of the clutch cover. In my GTV6 I have experienced the clutch cover breaking while the motor is wound up and it is frighteningly violent.

So I decided to bite the bullet and develop a clutch cover reinforcing girdle like some of the ones I've seen in pictures. It bolts in and fits without any modification to the cross member, all that is required is to machine a diameter on the nose of the cover. Here are some pictures of the build in process.

I don't have the time inclination to make more than the 3 I have made but Andy at Performatek is going to be taking the project over so if anyone is interested in them contact him.

Now onto engine management...

Greg
09-04-2018 07:24 PM
GregSef
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavyMetalAlfa View Post
GregSef, this is off current topic in this thread, but,,
Would any LeMons crews be interested on a package of perfect cars for it?
I offer 2 Milanos, one would run great with fresh fuel lines and fuel, a Verde with no engine and a 164 with engine donor?
I will take $1500 for all 3, may throw in lots of other parts to the right buyer.
Will Only sell all 3 as a package. Need to clean up and finish some projects so I can retire.
Hi Glen,

Tempting, I have too many cars as well though.

Greg
08-28-2018 07:16 PM
archeologist
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavyMetalAlfa View Post
GregSef, this is off current topic in this thread, but,,
Would any LeMons crews be interested on a package of perfect cars for it?
I offer 2 Milanos, one would run great with fresh fuel lines and fuel, a Verde with no engine and a 164 with engine donor?
I will take $1500 for all 3, may throw in lots of other parts to the right buyer.
Will Only sell all 3 as a package. Need to clean up and finish some projects so I can retire.
Rats, wrong coast.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
08-28-2018 06:22 PM
HeavyMetalAlfa GregSef, this is off current topic in this thread, but,,
Would any LeMons crews be interested on a package of perfect cars for it?
I offer 2 Milanos, one would run great with fresh fuel lines and fuel, a Verde with no engine and a 164 with engine donor?
I will take $1500 for all 3, may throw in lots of other parts to the right buyer.
Will Only sell all 3 as a package. Need to clean up and finish some projects so I can retire.
08-28-2018 03:59 PM
Eman911 The smoking gun has been discovered. Transaxle main shaft is bent, probably from swapping 3/4 from the Alfetta box. Hopefully between making a housing girdle, aligning everything and putting in a new mainshaft I'll finally have a nearly bulletproof driveline. I'll have it all ready for testing next week.
08-19-2018 06:59 PM
Eman911 I put the driveshaft on a set of pillow blocks, it runs straight and true, no run out to speak of. Giubos were fresh at the start of the season, we have less than ten hours on them, and pass visual inspection. The engine is back in the car and looks better now that it has been repositioned. In the previous arrangement I had a hard time lining up the mounts, this time everything kinda few into place, both front and rear. I started building a prototype girdle for the clutch housing for a belt and suspenders approach.


Thanks again for the advice.
08-19-2018 06:03 PM
GregSef
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eman911 View Post
It's starting to look as if I f'ed up when I welded the v6 mounts in the chassis. They appear to be about 5/16" too far to the rear of the car. I also found the front of the engine to be about 1.5" off center to the driver's side. My 2 Milanos both have the engine offset about 1" off center. Greg did you set the engine in centered or offset like our good friends the Alfa engineers? I think the problem lies in a combination of the driveshaft angles and the driveshaft being "too long" after the addition of the giubo savers and the rearward position of the engine.

The engine is ready to pull (almost) and after setting the engine mounts it will be time to check the driveshaft for straightness.
I have puzzled over why the engines in the V6 cars are skewed left to right for a long time. I have talked to a number of people who's opinions I respect a great deal about this an none of them have given me a reason that makes much sense.

The #1 reason you will hear is that it was done to create clearance for the drive shaft to shifter mechanism. I could be wrong but:

1. So the Engineer's at Alfa decided to compromise the drive train instead of redesigning a insignificant part? I don't think so.
2. Left hand and right hand drive models have the same skew - shouldn't it be reversed?
3. Wouldn't you fix this flaw in the Milano after you did it in the GTV6?
4. Do automatic trans cars do it any different.

I think that perhaps under a load (torque) the elastomeric mounts all deflect and the driveline angle straightens out. But I would love to hear a good reason for this skew, backed up by some facts.

What has made my driveline not break under endurance racing has been attention to detail. Fresh Giubos and everything put together right. I get the assembly balanced as a unit and put it together on the bench and install it as a unit. I think I may have said this before but if your buying or using used driveshaft tubes you need to check them to see if they are straight and not bent. I've found a lot of bent tubes.

Greg
08-08-2018 07:09 PM
Eman911 It's starting to look as if I f'ed up when I welded the v6 mounts in the chassis. They appear to be about 5/16" too far to the rear of the car. I also found the front of the engine to be about 1.5" off center to the driver's side. My 2 Milanos both have the engine offset about 1" off center. Greg did you set the engine in centered or offset like our good friends the Alfa engineers? I think the problem lies in a combination of the driveshaft angles and the driveshaft being "too long" after the addition of the giubo savers and the rearward position of the engine.

The engine is ready to pull (almost) and after setting the engine mounts it will be time to check the driveshaft for straightness.
07-23-2018 12:49 PM
GregSef I run a pretty strong 3.0 in my lemons car, it has 202 HP to the wheels with about 195 Ft/lb. of torque.

I use stock driveshaft parts except for 2 things now. I use the BMW center Giubo because you couldn't get a Akron one that was any good for a long time and now I make a front drive shaft tube from heavier material after shattering 2 of them in 3 years.

I wouldn't use any Giubo savers, if you have fresh Giubo's they work fine and I wouldn't want to restrain or them or mess with the overall length of the drive shaft.

I have been through a lot of drive shafts through the 10 years I have been racing them. Attention to detail is key to making them live along with CAREFULL assembly. Don't forget the loose pinch bolt assembly settle in technique.

1 out of every 3 drive shafts I have bought or found has a bent section in it from some idiot wrestling it to get it out instead of dropping the front transaxle cross member to and other components to slip it out. If its bent - it is probably done, although a skilled driveshaft shop can flame straighten them when they are not to bad. Best way to see how bent they are is to put it in a lathe chuck on the bearing journal and use the center and you can see it by eye or you can get fancy with an indicator. Word to the wise DO NOT USE A PULLER THAT MASHES UP THE CENTER DRILLED ENDS OF THE DRIVE SHAFT. Use a space or a nut to protect the center - otherwise you can't use it to check straightness.

I assemble the entire driveshaft with everything including the Giubos and the yoke and then put on the adaptors I machined so I can give the driveshaft to the balancer as a complete assembly.

So far so good. And I never try to assemble a driveshaft in the car, I always put it together as a unit then install it that way. I've seen it to many times when the installer pushes the split bearing off its inner race - then instant broken clutch cover.

I also carry a fully assembled, balanced spare driveshaft since the driveline is the weakest link in these cars.

Greg
07-23-2018 06:50 AM
Eman911 Well, its been a week since our near complete failure at Brainerd, and I'm finally ok with talking about it.


Our first stint on Saturday went very well, we started 25th and moved up to 10th rather quickly. The engine was strong, handling was near perfect, trans and LSD were flawless. And then the clutch housing broke. We replaced it, started the car, did as good an inspection of the drive line as we could in the dark and everything looked good. Drove the car around the paddock with no issues. 3 laps into Sunday's race it broke again.

So it would appear that something in the driveline is bent, broken or misaligned.


A little history:


the car was campaigned for 7 seasons in its original Alfetta configuration. We had one race weekend early in our history with identical results caused by a rear giubo that was not centering properly. No further issues with the clutch housing after that. In late 2016, early 17 we converted the chassis to GTV6 configuration using an 1983 donor. Everything was thoroughly checked at this time (driveshaft straightness, engine mount placement, etc). Since that time we have hade the clutch shaft bearing retaining nuts work loose, a front giubo failure and now a broken clutch housing. All new mounts, giubos and giubo savers were installed. No vibrations were noted during testing (3 hours at Raceway Park of the Midlands). Driveshaft ran straight and true.


So now everything comes apart and gets checked again. My biggest issue is what is the best method for checking driveline alignment? I know the engine does not sit square in the engine bay by design, but how big an angle is acceptable? With the engine angled, how do you avoid angularity in the driveline? The front driveshaft uses the slip yoke at the engine and it would appear the yoke is nearly bottomed on the splines, is it possible that the driveshaft is too long?
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