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$75K Giulia Spider at Gooding Scottsdale

8K views 43 replies 22 participants last post by  don000 
#1 ·
I was at the Gooding Scottsdale Auction today (a superb event BTW) and saw a 1964 Giulia Spider Normale sell for $75,000 plus 10% buyer's premium. It was a beautifully presented car but this has to be one of the highest prices paid for a Normale.

At the same event a lovely Series V 6C1750 Zagato with unbroken provenance sold for $1.4 million plus 10%.

Arno Leskinen
AROC-USA National Concours Chair
102
115
116
164LS
1972 Lancia Fulvia 1.3S
 
#2 ·
$75k Giulia Spider at Gooding Scottsdale

Add this to your databases. I was at the Gooding Scottsdale Auction today and 1964 Giulia Spider Normale sold for $75,000 plus 10% buyer's premium. Keep in mind that unlike Barrett-Jackson, this is a very genteel and calm auction, so it was not a matter of egos showing off for television. It was an immaculately presented car, but there were some dropped jaws in the room amongst those I knew (Alfisti and non-Alfisti). I think this was great and reflects the increasing appreciation of Alfas in the mainstream collector community (but makes it hard for the rest of us:().

Arno Leskinen
AROC-USA National Concours Chair
102
115
116
164LS
1972 Lancia Fulvia 1.3S
 
#5 ·
I saw the auction for this car online. Now I have not seen it in person nor do I know the previous owner that Gooding was praising so much. The car looked fantastic.

Watching the bidding start, I told my partner that "we are going to get one of these, just an early Giulietta Spider Veloce and not in red. This should go for anywhere between $35 - 45k max". How wrong I was. Crazy money for a nice one, though in my opinion, not a very special car. The beautiful blue 57 Giulietta Spider Veloce at FJ could have been yours for $58k and it looks in similarly spectacular condition.

Judging from what I saw at Gooding and Barrett Jackson, the market is clearly back on a healthier path. Even American muscle sales results are quite impressive.
 
#12 ·
Crazy money for a nice one, though in my opinion, not a very special car.
I'm with Mike. $75,000 + 10% for a normale? I anticipate that the SCM write-up on this auction will say "well sold".

Hey, we would all like to see our 750/101's get some respect in the marketplace, and from the photos, the restoration does look first class. But $82.5K??? I doubt this will be repeated soon.
 
#6 ·
#9 · (Edited)
Yes, but the Gooding catalog (relevant page attached here) is more informative.

This was undoubtedly a standout result at $82.5k including commission, but it fits a pattern I think I perceive from the Arizona results and Bonhams at Retromobile. Many of the high value cars were DNS or brought relatively low prices, and there were few surprises among cars in dubious condition. But aesthetically attractive cars in excellent condition in the middle range of prices did extremely well. If such a generalization is true, it's surely a sign of our very strange economic times. The lesson is, get out to the garage and start polishing, etc.


Edit: Apologies if posting the catalog page was not acceptable, as I see that it has been removed. The source was clearly identified and it's just a fragment of the catalog so I presumed that there was no copyright issue (in fact it's probably good advertising), and it is readily accessible to anyone on the web (provided that they first register their e-mail address only on the Gooding site).
 
#11 ·
It's only a matter of time that these cars go up in value to what they are truly worth in relation to other classic collector cars of this era although this seems like serious money for a non-Veloce. Keith Martin of Sports Car Market Magazine appraised my Giulietta Spider Veloce at $65 to $70K "to the right buyer". I have it insured through Condon and Skelly for $65K. Well restored Giulietta's and Giulia's, especially Veloce's, should respect that kind of money in todays market.

Cheers
 
#15 · (Edited)
Same vintage Porsches and 3 L Healeys have been priced away above the equivalent Alfa.

And the Alfa is a superior car--in most respects.

From a Brit road test in 1964 the curb weight of the Healey is 2604 pounds and the 101 Spider is 2065.

544 pounds difference.
 
#16 ·
Increasing ALFA value

As much as we enjoy the increase in value (whether interested in selling or not) one must consider that all things are relevant.
In this same Gooding auction there also sold:

# 150 67 E-type Jaguar FHC $100,100.
# 168 65 E-type Jaguar Roadster $110,000.
Etc...
These are vehicles that originally sold for similar prices to ALFA's.
Judging by this and other auctions ... we still have a way to go before matching the increase in value of other marks.
 
#17 ·
Interesting comments. One auction does not make a market. We have seen it all before with the $100 plain Jane 356 coupe, a 6-figure Pagoda SL, or a $75k TR4. All achieved once or twice at auction without impact on average values.

Also think the E-type analogies are not applicable. The SKE is a fundamentally different type of car. Also, don't fully understand the described gap to 356 values: Plain Jane coupes are similarily priced than Giullia/ Giulietta coupes, covertibles are in a similar bracket than Spiders, maybe a tad higher. Bigmoney goes for the "special" 356s such as Speedster, Roadster and Carreras - Ditto for the special Gullias/ Giulliettas. And don't get me going on how crappy the 356 is supposed to be? Anthony, have cafe and drive a good one again ... :)
 
#18 ·
Giulia Spider Veloce at Auction

I called Hagerty insurance and they told me they were comfortable insuring my 101-18 ffor $68,000.
I rode in about a 1955 Porsche. It was like being in a garbage can with a dozen people beating on it with sticks. The deal with them is the flat motor kept the mass low.
BTW my Alfa weight 1801 pounds with a quarter of a tank of gas.
Ted Stratton
 
#22 · (Edited)
Prices for sportscars seems to be firming.

Saw a Ferrari 275 GTB 4-cam at $1.6 mil recently.

These reached $1.2 mil in the 1989 mania and then slumped to less than $300,000.

It must have been a year ago when last I checked the price and it was at $1.1 mil.
 
#23 ·
Hey Don,

I got my Goodings pocket guide this week and was quite baffled. I am not usually the one to complain about auction pre-sale estimates and actually think they are more spot on recently in the high-end.

But when I saw some estimates for the cheap cars, my jaw dropped. Maybe I missed how special some if these cars might be? Maybe this is a way to make the current owner happy until auction evening in a "No Reserve" setting? Or maybe I am off and will be proven wrong on auction night (It happened before). But $70k for a plane jane spider, $80k for a Fiat TV and over $125k for an Amilcar (And excellent one just sold for less that half that in Monaco), $90k for a 89 911 Speedster? And those are the low estimates. I am missing something here ...

Mike
 
#24 ·
A friend of mine just had his '65 1600 Spider appraised as a 95 point car and worth $75K. Its not a Veloce, its not even the correct engine block for the car. The restoration however is of a very high quality.

Will
 
#25 ·
Mike,

Better buy now, things are going up fast.

The Gooding auction could be the most exciting to watch in years, with these kinds of estimates. Lots of metal to move, but also lots of cash around since the environment for productive business investment is looking worse and worse. Is this the party while the Titanic sinks ?

Some of these cars have been offered around, so there could be exciting moments if and when the reserves come off. That gorgeous ex-Clapton Astura (Lot 52) flopped at the Branson (!?) auction, but I don't think anyone will give it away, alas.

But look at Lot 111 at RM. My guess is that it could double the high estimate if the folks buying Siatas discover it hiding among the Fords. Very cool.

Don
 
#26 ·
OK did dose anyone watch "What's My Car Worth" on HD Theater? An Isetta went for $80k, now that's just nutz.

And speaking of Gooding what about these two Alfas:
1956 Normale Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider
$70,000 - $90,000

GTA wanna be: 1968 Alfa Romeo GT Junior
CHASSIS NO. AR1218078
$65,000 - $85,000

Personally I hope the bottom drops out of the market like it did in 1989, so all the investors will lose there shirts and leave the cars to the enthusiast.
 
#27 ·
Personally I hope the bottom drops out of the market like it did in 1989, so all the investors will lose there shirts and leave the cars to the enthusiast.
This is a very different market from 1989 (and I feel qualified to make that observation, having sold my old Ferrari close to the peak). People are buying cars now to use and enjoy them. Thanks to the internet, it is now vastly easier to buy, sell, own, maintain and enjoy any collector car, and there are more interesting events every year. Even insurance has become a bargain.

Prices today are simply the reflection of more enthusiasts willing to put more money into their hobby, versus the limited supply of desirable cars. A major 'correction' (as the stockbrokers call it) is not impossible, but very unlikely. People are using these cars, and they can now be used more easily.
 
#28 ·
When I bought my Spider in 2006 I was convinced that I had bought the top of the market.:(

Then with the financial "turmoil", prices for most old sports cars declined.

If any private transactions take place in the $60,000 to $70,000 range I'll believe the change from the $30,000 level.:)

Otherwise it is auction hysteria.
 
#33 ·
As a veteran trader in the financial markets, the spread in price between a good 101 Alfa and the equivalent Healey 3000 or Porsche 356 has been interesting.

Good Spiders or Sprints have been at 25k to 35k over the past five years. Over the same interval, Healeys and 356s have been in the 60k to 80k range.

I haven't seen any recent rush up in the latter two lately.

Perhaps the auctions at 75k could be starting to narrow the gap?
 
#34 ·
Although I'm also in finance, I'm not sure that this is the best way to look at things. While Porsches, Healeys and Alfas directly competed as new cars, the factors driving their buyers today are vastly different, so I doubt that we can anticipate much correlation in pricing.

To the best of my knowledge, spiders are quite new to the high-end auction houses. If enough people in this segment of the market want them, these Gooding sales will set new benchmarks for the valuation of these cars.

In a more liquid market supported by the high-end auction houses, 750-101 cars should have a much higher valuation, closing some of the gap with their Zagato-bodied siblings that are already established in this market. As this happens, spiders will likely start to build the usual open-car premium over sprints.

If all this come to pass, provenance and authenticity will be the price of admission into this market segment. You don't see hot rods at Gooding.

Most of the unsolicited offers I receive for my Sprint Speciale come from owners of high-value Italian cars. I can envision many such owners wanting a 750-101 Alfa for their collection, but it must be super clean and correct. The style and attraction of these cars is well beyond a bathtub Porsche or agricultural Healey, and I anticipate that with the endorsement of Gooding pricing will soon reflect that. A star is born.

Of course, I could just be breathing my own exhaust.
 
#36 ·
Viewed live online, the bidding appeared to progress normally to a hammered sale price of $67,500, which like many cars at this auction was just below the pre-sale estimate of $70 - 90k. The result will be reported including the buyer's commission, so it should appear in the auction record as $74,250.

This is below the $82.5k achieved by the '64 spider last January in Gooding's Scottsdale auction, but that car had more active bidding probably due to its provenance. It seems reasonable to consider Saturday's result the fair market value today of a freshly restored, correct non-veloce.

Anyone know who did the restoration ?

Don
 
#37 ·
I appreciate all the positive thoughts related to 750/101 value pricing. But, the auction house market for these Alfas is so illiquid that I believe these price spikes cannot be connected to establish a valuation norm. Its difficult to accept a two-tier pricing where the auction people bidders don't realize these 750/101s sell weekly on Ebay for between $25k-$40k. They can't be that stupid. Perhaps with alcohol flowing and attempting to be a "big shooter" they just keep bidding to impress each other. My point is, there must be something else here--heritage, prior celebrity ownership? Otherwise it looks like an Arb play in the making.
 
#39 ·
It seems to me that the missing element in your analysis is the importance of condition and authenticity. The cars on eBay for $25-40k are simply not the same thing as what goes for $75k at Gooding. The latter is a collectable example of an appealing car that is increasingly (thanks mostly to Gooding) starting to be appreciated by higher-end collectors. The former are 'drivers' that have been maintained and repaired in the low-cost manner befitting an eBay valuation.

The car sold at Gooding had no special provenance or history, indeed it was apparently not even worth mentioning who restored it. The bidding proceeded normally among multiple bidders with no apparent frenzy, and the hammer price was slightly below the pre-sale estimate like many of the other cars there. Gooding events are well attended by informed buyers, and are about a far as one can get from the boozed-up televised spectacle one finds elsewhere. Like you say, they can't be that stupid. I therefore believe that the valuation of this sale is fair and indicative.

Rather than two-tier pricing, I think it can be said that there are two different segments to the market. There are very few 750-101 cars that would be acceptable for sale at Gooding. Having only recently returned to Alfa ownership after a 30 year break, I am surprised by how scruffy most 750-101 cars remain, even those shown at the national convention. In many cases the cars have long-term owners who do their own work. There is a casualness about swapping engines and other inauthenticities that disappeared long ago from E-types, for example.

In my view the pricing differences reflect simple economics. There are very few top quality 750-101 cars relative to the growing demand, and the cost of making a $25-40k car into a $75k would be considerably more than $50k at professional labor rates. Having seen the '65 spider that Bonhams sold for $26k at Greenwich in June, I can assure you that it would cost at least an additional $75k to have a professional make this into the equal of the car sold by Goodings. Pricing differentials based upon condition and authenticity are thus becoming proportionately very similar to what has existed for years with E-types.

If an arb opportunity exists, it is only available to those who do their own work and have both the skills to achieve professional results and the determination to maintain authenticity.
 
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