Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums - Reply to Topic
Thread: keyless ignition? Reply to Thread
Title:
Message:
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










  Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

  Topic Review (Newest First)
03-10-2019 04:23 PM
Michael Smith
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSk View Post
Hackers and thieves don't care about legistration, but you keep beating on about how awesome new cars are with their unnecessary features

Keyless entry is as useful as tits on a bull. My father's brand new car has it. He's never sure if the car is locked or not, and he embraces new tech.
Pete
If you don't like new cars that's fine but they're all coming with these features you don't like. I'm curious why you keep expressing your dislike on threads intended to assist owners or potential owners of these new fangled cars.

Tell your dad to simply "lock it again" if he isn't sure. It'll flash lights or something similar if you try to relock an already locked car. Some keyless entry cars will even lock the car for you even if you press the unlock button but fail to try to open a door or the trunk lid. Clever eh?
03-10-2019 03:12 PM
PSk Hackers and thieves don't care about legistration, but you keep beating on about how awesome new cars are with their unnecessary features

Keyless entry is as useful as tits on a bull. My father's brand new car has it. He's never sure if the car is locked or not, and he embraces new tech.
Pete
03-10-2019 01:55 PM
Michael Smith
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSk View Post
Cause found: https://www.9news.com.au/2019/03/10/...arpark-mystery

Shows how easy it is to affect these stupid, unnecessary systems. Don't even need to steal anything. Wish I had been there, parked in my old fashioned 1750/156v6 and with a simple thing like a "key" unlocked my car, turned on the ignition and started the engine, and then just drove away in seconds ... maybe I should take out a patent for a mechanical device that permits entry and operation of an automobile
Pete
So an Australian government regulatory failure means keyless entry in North America is stupid. The logic of that argument escapes me.

Your old fashioned key locks are easily defeated with a slide hammer or even a pair of barbers scissors in some cases.

As I pointed out, those Aussie car owners could as easily have used their metal key and driven away also.

Keyless entry, keyless start are very convenient, reliable and more secure than any hard key system.
03-10-2019 12:34 PM
PSk Cause found: https://www.9news.com.au/2019/03/10/...arpark-mystery

Shows how easy it is to affect these stupid, unnecessary systems. Don't even need to steal anything. Wish I had been there, parked in my old fashioned 1750/156v6 and with a simple thing like a "key" unlocked my car, turned on the ignition and started the engine, and then just drove away in seconds ... maybe I should take out a patent for a mechanical device that permits entry and operation of an automobile
Pete
03-09-2019 06:09 PM
Johnalfa Thanks for the clarification. If only Alfa had done something similar! BTW I understand that the Euro diesel Giulias do have some variation but for whatever reason it isn't installed in the gasoline models. Pity.
03-09-2019 12:35 PM
Michael Smith
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnalfa View Post
Michael, I was responding to your comment that on your Jaguar it's easy to unlock the ZF. Perhaps you could enlighten us as to how the British do this?
Sorry. To the rear of the gear selector segment of the console is a removable trim panel. Under that is a lock, operated using a flat blade. I've used a dime. That frees up a lever connected to the Park pawl inside the transmission. There is a red fabric strap connected to the end of this lever, you pull that upwards and the transmission brake is unlocked i.e. the pawl is pulled out of the transmission lock in the same fashion as selecting P would do. The transmission is then in neutral and the car can be moved or towed.

This feature is part of both the 6 spd and 8 spd ZF transmissions. I guess different car makers access this feature differently. Jaguar utilizes this provision from the interior of the cabin.

Subsequently the awd feature obstructed this access point so a cable was run up into the engine compartment and connected to a similar release device operated by hand.
03-09-2019 07:36 AM
Johnalfa Michael, I was responding to your comment that on your Jaguar it's easy to unlock the ZF. Perhaps you could enlighten us as to how the British do this?
03-09-2019 06:09 AM
Michael Smith
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnalfa View Post
Unfortunately the Giulia ZF 8speed is NOT easy to unlock if the engine is not running. It requires that a special bolt be inserted into a lever underneath the car. First problem is the bolt is not supplied with the car. Second problem is that insertion requires reaching under the car. Would you want to try that on the side of a busy highway? Love the Giulia; just wish more thought had been given to emergency service procedures.
That's not related to keyless entry or keyless start. If you have your fob you can get into the car, start the engine and drive away, same as if you had a key entry and start. You open the fob, extract the metal emergency key and use that to enter the car, placing the fob on the designated spot will allow you to start the engine and disable the alarm.

The procedure you describe is to deal with the no key at all situation or transmission control failure. It's complex because it isn't needed unless you gave a serious fault. Then you shouldn't be driving the car anyway.

Obviously you don't want to make it too easy to take the transmission out of P without the key.
03-08-2019 07:02 PM
Johnalfa Unfortunately the Giulia ZF 8speed is NOT easy to unlock if the engine is not running. It requires that a special bolt be inserted into a lever underneath the car. First problem is the bolt is not supplied with the car. Second problem is that insertion requires reaching under the car. Would you want to try that on the side of a busy highway? Love the Giulia; just wish more thought had been given to emergency service procedures.
03-08-2019 03:53 PM
Michael Smith Um, they all come with a metal key. The same thing could happen if you forget to replace the battery in the fob, for example. Again, an artificial problem resulting from people not reading their owner's manual and blamed on technology.

Keyless entry and keyless start are robustly reliable. Up here you are hundreds of times more likely to be locked out of your car by ice in the door lock than by a fault in a keyless entry fob.
03-08-2019 03:50 PM
Michael Smith
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARwrench View Post
Same reason they made cars so you have to step on the clutch pedal in order to start.

Have to protect the dummies from getting a Darwin award.
Yes, manual shift car should always be put in neutral and the selection double checked before any attempt is made to start the engine. Depressing the clutch is never fail safe enough.

Mind you driving in our severe winters means you also always push the clutch to reduce load on the starter. Interesting to note that drivers in warmer places tend to select neutral but not bother depressing the clutch. It's second nature up here to do both.
03-08-2019 03:46 PM
Michael Smith
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del View Post
Just heard in the news about a family in our area barely saved from CO poisoning due to their keyless car idling in the attached garage. Darn things are dangerous, thus the pending legislation about having the vehicle shut off after a certain amount of idling if the driver is not in the car.
Problem with that story is cars new enough to have keyless ignition do not produce enough CO to kill you.

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...udy_of_2_Cases

Interesting question whether the engine can keep running long enough to produce enough CO2 concentration to asphyxiate a human from oxygen displacement. CO2 isn't poisonous.

Mind you, forgetting to switch off the engine isn't related to keyless ignition. It's just as easy to leave the key on as it is to leave the car running with keyless ignition.

Well, I suppose except for the bing bing required for the USA market only.....

I experience the opposite effect now, forgetting to remove the key from the ignition after switching the engine off. I have finally found a use for the idiot binging sound.

Anyone parking a car and forgetting to switch off the engine before leaving the car should not be permitted a driver's license. It's an appalling habit, exiting a car even for a moment and leaving the engine running. If nobody is in the driver's seat the engine should be off. Period.

If you sleep in a home with any fossil fuel device inside the building and that also does not have at least one CO detector you are taking unnecessary risks. These devices are now absurdly cheap and 100% reliable. Every house with an attached garage ought to have one and you should have one on any floor that has sleeping areas. If you own a dog this is even more important for the safety of your dog, since they are much more sensitive to CO than humans. Probably why dogs don't smoke.....
03-08-2019 11:28 AM
PSk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del View Post
Just heard in the news about a family in our area barely saved from CO poisoning due to their keyless car idling in the attached garage. Darn things are dangerous, thus the pending legislation about having the vehicle shut off after a certain amount of idling if the driver is not in the car.
Far wiser just to go back to the key ...

People who create the legislation are just as stupid as the car designers
Pete
03-08-2019 11:25 AM
ARwrench Same reason they made cars so you have to step on the clutch pedal in order to start.

Have to protect the dummies from getting a Darwin award.
03-08-2019 10:07 AM
Del Just heard in the news about a family in our area barely saved from CO poisoning due to their keyless car idling in the attached garage. Darn things are dangerous, thus the pending legislation about having the vehicle shut off after a certain amount of idling if the driver is not in the car.
This thread has more than 15 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome