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  Topic Review (Newest First)
Yesterday 04:56 AM
gigem75 That's the way to do it for sure. Now if we can only have a bluetooth AFR incorporated into the 123 dashboard. The possibilities makes one giddy just to think about.
07-14-2019 07:48 PM
alfaparticle I have done a lot of tuning and testing in the way that Mike has outlined. Here are my suggestions:
Do a series of at least 5 runs in a short space of time with no changes and look at the variance in the data. This will help you identify real changes from "noise".
Do a number of runs, one after another with a particular setup and use the mean time. I used 5 runs.
Be wary of inferring performance changes from data collected on different days. You may be surprised how much temperature, barometric pressure, humidity, wind speed and wind direction can affect timed runs. I tried to test one change per day.
Some changes may produce more torque in one part of the rev range and less in another so do the tests over the rev range that is most meaningful to you.
07-14-2019 06:55 PM
gigem75 That really is pretty neat! I was also thinking about timing runs in 3rd from say 3500 to 5500 with different setups like advance and jetting to see what works best. Might be a good way to quantify results. Done on the same road with the same conditions would be the way I'd do it. It would also be a good comparison within the community.
07-14-2019 04:02 PM
Gubi Here's a video if you want to see how it looks. Pulling out of a parking lot, accelerating up to speed, and then doing some accel/decel. If you click on the YouTube link it's a lot bigger on the site.

Note that I'm running 15deg vacuum advance, so the advance at times will be a lot higher than the centrifugal curve. Curves are shown below, I can probably get a bit more aggressive with the centrifugal ramp but I'm keeping it close-ish to stock curves until the car is sorted.


.
07-14-2019 02:25 PM
alfaparticle
Quote:
I do not know what the above means or why it is important
It is because he wants a clean signal to input to his Zeitronix ZT2 so that he can data log AFR and RPM. There are many posts on that subject. It is as good as dyno testing for Weber or programmable FI tuning.
07-14-2019 01:51 PM
Tom Frasca
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingBanana View Post
Is anyone aware of whether it is possible to extract a square wave rpm *signal* from a 123 dizzy? I have the Zeitronix ZT2 AFR logger, but the analogue signal from the coil negative is very noisy. The dizzy does output an rpm signal as the 123 virtual "dashboard" contains a tacho - can this be pulled via the USB and extracted for use in other software, (or even just logged)? The 123 manufacturer does not respond to emails and all the resellers don't have that level of product knowledge.

I know some people (Ed) have built filters to effectively convert from analogue to digital (square) wave to provide a more stable rpm input for the ZT2, but my skills to build this, even with a circuit diagram, are limited! The "filter" in the zeitronix unit doesn't appear to be very effective.

Any ideas welcome.
I do not know what the above means or why it is important , I do know it is a reliable alternative to my 54 year old bosch and the notoriously accurate Alfa analog gauges.
07-14-2019 10:29 AM
Gubi
Quote:
Originally Posted by iachella View Post
It would be nice if there was some kind of dongle you could plug into the usb version and connect by Bluetooth. Although I played with the curve using usb for a while and have great performance and haven't touched it in a couple of years now. I probably don't need to play with it any more, but I want to.
It isn't so bad, provided you have the distributor pointed in a reasonable direction. I have the port to the right on the Giulia, and I'm able to get the USB cable in fairly easily using a mechanic's mirror. I'm not sure I'd leave the allen screw cover open as that might expose the electronics to moisture (and, this being an Alfa, oil.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gigem75 View Post
Is it possible to make a screenshot video on an iPhone? A video of the dashboard under acceleration would be great to have.
I was going to say "I don't know how to do that" but then I found instructions on how to do that: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207935

Let me see what I can do, or maybe someone else will beat me to it.
07-14-2019 09:48 AM
gigem75 Is it possible to make a screenshot video on an iPhone? A video of the dashboard under acceleration would be great to have.
07-10-2019 05:42 AM
alfaparticle My filters have had limited success. I have one that cleans up the coil -ve signal and another that uses a clamp on pickup from a plug wire but neither are very effective. I was able to get a signal that was good enough to tune the Webers but it did not look very nice. I will be happy to share the details of my efforts.
07-10-2019 05:16 AM
FlyingBanana Is anyone aware of whether it is possible to extract a square wave rpm *signal* from a 123 dizzy? I have the Zeitronix ZT2 AFR logger, but the analogue signal from the coil negative is very noisy. The dizzy does output an rpm signal as the 123 virtual "dashboard" contains a tacho - can this be pulled via the USB and extracted for use in other software, (or even just logged)? The 123 manufacturer does not respond to emails and all the resellers don't have that level of product knowledge.

I know some people (Ed) have built filters to effectively convert from analogue to digital (square) wave to provide a more stable rpm input for the ZT2, but my skills to build this, even with a circuit diagram, are limited! The "filter" in the zeitronix unit doesn't appear to be very effective.

Any ideas welcome.
07-09-2019 08:54 PM
iachella It would be nice if there was some kind of dongle you could plug into the usb version and connect by Bluetooth. Although I played with the curve using usb for a while and have great performance and haven't touched it in a couple of years now. I probably don't need to play with it any more, but I want to.

I left the cable plugged in because I don't think I could ever get it back in there without removing the distributor. I should have put one of those plastic caps on the usb end of it.
07-09-2019 09:14 AM
Gubi FYI, I've been using the bluetooth Tune version on my GTV for about five months now (I've got the USB version on my Giulia.) The app was a little buggy at first on the iPhone (creating and saving curves intermittently had problems) but they released a new version a couple months ago and since then I haven't had any issues. No problems with it reliably connecting to the phone via bluetooth.

Overall it's very cool. Changing curves is fast and simple, which makes it super easy to test out changes. You can save as many curves as you want and just swap between them with a few taps. The dashboard functionality is neat as you can easily get speedo / tach / advance / vacuum data right on your phone as you drive, no cable required. It's also got immobilizer functionality and you can lock the car with a PIN.

So it seems like they worked out some of the connectivity issues people were seeing a while back. If you're going to get one, I'd spend a few extra bucks and get the BT version.
06-13-2019 05:08 AM
gigem75 I found the initial setting of TDC to be iffy at first. Not sure why you are using a strobe to set TDC though. When I installed the oil pump I put the rotor pointing forward but when I got everything buttoned up and motor firing on #1 and rotated the distributor clockwise past the rotor and then with the black wire disconnected and ignition on rotate the distributor anti clockwise back to #1 it was hard to see the green led light up because it was behind the plate. To fix this I moved the plug wires in the cap one hole forward. That put the led right under one of the four holes in the plate. I could then tell exactly when the led came on and that gave me my initial TDC. The programming takes it from there. My problems with the app have been the Bluetooth version. I had an older android phone that hardly worked at all. I got a new i phone with the latest version of Bluetooth on it and the app works perfectly with no connection problems at all.
06-12-2019 06:46 PM
Tom Frasca
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig_m67 View Post
To be honest, I’m still struggling with the app and setting TDC with a strobe
The interface could be less confusing
(Yes, I have the most recent update)

In other news I did balance my Dell’Ortos with two salad dressing bottles and some blue dye, made a big difference to high speed running
06-12-2019 05:31 PM
Craig_m67 To be honest, I’m still struggling with the app and setting TDC with a strobe
The interface could be less confusing
(Yes, I have the most recent update)

In other news I did balance my Dell’Ortos with two salad dressing bottles and some blue dye, made a big difference to high speed running
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