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  Topic Review (Newest First)
04-28-2011 02:22 AM
vroom Belatedly stumbled upon this thread more than a month after spending 33 hours travelling to get to Amelia Island - a last minute thing dovetailing with a family holiday on the West Coast!

To me this car and the Ferrari Ghia were the highlights of the show!!

Congratulations on what is a stunningly beautiful machine!

Having driven a 202 Cisitalia, I have a fair understanding of what an epic machine this is, made even more so by its impossibly beautiful lines...

I hope you don't mind me posting a couple of snaps of it on the lawn last month!

Best John.
03-05-2011 02:24 AM
207A10
almost done - 103

Getting ready for Amelia next weekend - almost done:
10-12-2010 12:52 PM
iicarJohn
Abarth 205 numbers 101 and 103

Thanks to some ongoing research being done by Corrado Bellabarba (apparently with some information supplied by Dr. Sergio Lugo) there is now some good material coming to light on the Italian paper-trail ownership history of these two cars. Both seemed to have moved around a fair bit in short periods of time.

It would not be correct for me to share all at this point but here is a teaser:

Chassis 101 went to Rome, then to near Como, back to Rome and on to Lucca before it was registered as sold 13 November 1953 to the already well-described owner in California, Herbert Hadley Johnson, who is named in the final document along with address and all. At one point (early in the paper trail) the builder & model of the car was recorded as "Fiat 1100" ... but this was changed in later documents.

Chassis 103 went to Brescia in 1950, then to Rome, to Florence, to Arezzo briefly and back to Florence. The final record is impossible to read in the copy that was supplied but it does imply where we might look for more. Research from this point may become a bit difficult and/or costly? A kind of "shotgun" research could be done by researching blocks of license plates issued during a certain time period until the "hit" is made. Anybody want to finance this kind of research?

John
06-28-2010 09:43 AM
Ritmo100S A must for me, and substantially less money than the silver version hand-made done by History Car 43/Lilliput in Italy..
06-28-2010 09:21 AM
207A10
the world awaits

just out:

ABARTH 205 A scala 1/43 su eBay.it Ulteriori marche, Macchinine e miniature, Giocattoli e Modellismo

elad
03-27-2010 12:40 PM
don000 Hi Elad,

Because I received the photo through research on my car I'm not sure who has the copyright, so I don't think it would be appropriate for me to post it online. But since it might be your car in the picture, I see nothing wrong with directly sending you a copy via e-mail if you would PM an address to me. The researcher has access to at least some of the entry forms for the event.

Don
03-27-2010 11:37 AM
207A10 hi don, can you pls post the scanned picture?

It is most likely 101 or 103 as 102 was supposed to have been sold by then into Austria.. but who knows

There are other distinguishing features between the cars, such as door lines (will not help in this one) location of bumper (if they are on the cars) the depth of the grill and number of ribs, the chrome (or non) treatment of the rear quarter window, shape of the rear valance etc...

Looking fwd to seeing the picture

Elad
03-27-2010 08:04 AM
don000 Does anyone know which of the 205s participated in the 1st Coppa "Comandante Giovanni Braccini" at Saline di Volterra in September 1953 ? I have a photo showing a 205 parked near my car, but I can't make out the door lines to distinguish which 205 it might be.
01-28-2010 10:17 AM
iicarJohn
Mille Miglia rules

The Mille Miglia rules changed in 1954. Before that time, it was required to have two "drivers" even if only one of them drove. From 1954 to 1957 it was not necessary to have a co-driver. Many of the larger cars continued to carry do-drivers/mechanics as the performance potential of the car was not diminished drastically. In the smaller cars, one could not really hope to have a good finish if one carried the weight of a passenger. The question of whether Bonacina had a co-driver in 1955 is not really important. He is not listed as having had a co-driver in the sources I've seen but I've found many errors in all of the accounts of these races. It is merely a detail that might be answered definitively by someone who really knows ... such as Mario Bonacina himself? Or his co-driver ... if there was one.

John
01-28-2010 09:58 AM
PG1964 Do you mean....following the rules?
If i remember, this wasn't the first time a pilot finished the race without the co-pilot.
01-28-2010 09:51 AM
iicarJohn
solo = alone

Yes. But did he drive alone?
01-28-2010 05:40 AM
PG1964
Quote:
Originally Posted by iicarJohn View Post
He shared a Fiat 500 in the MM of 1950 and drove solo (?) in Fiat 8V N. 000066 on the MM of 1955 but did not reach Rome.
Solo= by oneself. He drove without co-pilot, in this case.
01-27-2010 01:48 PM
Alex An article on 205-102 courtesy of the German magazine Motor-Klassik.
01-16-2010 12:53 PM
iicarJohn
Pallavidini/Mangano on MM 1951

Thanks for this information. Of course, we don't know precisely how to interpret some of this? As with many of the entries for "interesting" cars on the MM, it is unfortunate that additional details for the car were not listed on the entry card. It does seem clear that the "Sirca" name was promotional rather than being truly informative. We only get to wonder at this point if the "Sirca" name was already applied to the entry when it was assigned to Hermann Lothaller and Karl Anzenbacher and if they were intending to run the Abarth(?). I may have some indication of this in my files? I don't have a listing of the racing licenses issued for 1951 but the consecutive racing license numbers issued to Pallavidini and Mangano might allow us to think the numbers were issued together at the last minute?

I have some information on Bruno Mangano (Milano) in my computer.
Mangano shared a Lancia Aprilia with G. Ramaioli on the MM of 1948.
He purchased a Fiat 1500 Sport (N. 026419) in October of 1949.
Clearly, your research has paired him with Pallavidini on MM 1951.
He shared a Fiat "Sport 1100" and then a Lancia Aurelia 2000 with Mario Bonacina on the MM races of 1952 and 1953. He entered a Ferrari (entry from the newly formed Scuderia Madunina) in the Coppa Inter-Europa in September of 1953. There is no indication that he actually raced as neither he nor the car is shown as a finisher or DNF. The Scuderia Madunina was a 1953 spin-off from the Scuderia Autieri so perhaps there may have been earlier Autieri ties?

Following the trails in various directions, I also did a search in the computer for Ramaioli and he shared a car with Alfranco Pagani (also in Milano) on the MM of 1952. Have quite a lot of info on him but this is getting perhaps a bit distant from the topic?

Mario Bonacina was also in Milano. I have a 1955 address for him based on his 1955 racing license #72. He shared a Fiat 500 in the MM of 1950 and drove solo (?) in Fiat 8V N. 000066 on the MM of 1955 but did not reach Rome. The 8V still had its Scuderia Madunina decal last I knew.

So, no great meaningful insights, but some more leads to chase.

John
01-16-2010 12:26 PM
PG1964 Thanks. That is a workshop clean and well organized !
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