Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums - Reply to Topic
Thread: Mystery car Reply to Thread
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:


  Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

  Topic Review (Newest First)
07-30-2018 03:34 AM

I know the true story of this car. it is simply an iso rivolta, bought in 2000, cut and modified at maranello(in a small bodybuilder, craftsman), (the modification lasted 15 days and 10.000euro) in bredvan ... then back in belgium, bodywork' carro ' liege grace hollogne, where she was in metal he adjusted it and put in color, then went to tony gillet ( gillet vertigo Namur)to put the engine, and then was resold and now it is believed that iso has to make this car, iso has never made a car as well it is a replica !! but no one understood !!!!! even coys who sold this car fell into the trap !!!! it is simply a donor car and another bodywork! nothing else !!
10-15-2007 03:40 AM
Originally Posted by AlvaroSeco View Post
I don't know....
I think the car was sold to Japan and repainted blue.
Who is the actual owner of the Macchinetta?

I'm busy with work and building a house, my Alfas...... you know, but my idea is to rebuild the Bizzarrini Register, update records, pictures and info. If you, or any real interested Bizzarrini fan, (just fan like me) want to collaborate, all of you are welcome. I've got a proto page, and is build with PHPNuke portal tecnology, so its possible to give admin access to some collaborators, and make a collaborative work.

Best regards, Alvaro.

Happy to help, but I'm not that much of a Bizzarini expert. I have no idea who owns the 500 today, but I love the car, although I prefered it when it was a spider. I am more of a "specialist" in the small displacement (750-2000cc) obscure 1950s Italain and French sports-racers, such as Siata, Stanguellini, Moretti, Giaur, Nardi, Deutsch Bonnet, and such....

My avatar is of one of the two Moretti 750 Zagatos bialberos built, and I owned one of the two in the mid-1980s. It's the only car out of more than a hundred cars (about 50 being Alfas) I've owned in my life that I regret selling..
10-14-2007 10:57 AM
AlvaroSeco Hi!
I don't know....
I think the car was sold to Japan and repainted blue.
Who is the actual owner of the Macchinetta?

I'm busy with work and building a house, my Alfas...... you know, but my idea is to rebuild the Bizzarrini Register, update records, pictures and info. If you, or any real interested Bizzarrini fan, (just fan like me) want to collaborate, all of you are welcome. I've got a proto page, and is build with PHPNuke portal tecnology, so its possible to give admin access to some collaborators, and make a collaborative work.

Best regards, Alvaro.
10-14-2007 08:13 AM
dretceterini Dear Alvaro:

Any idea what the price paid for this car? I WANT IT (but would have preferred it to have been kept as the barchetta) !!!

Bizzarrini 500 Macchinetta #503958
Engine: FIAT 4 cylinder. SIATA head. Custom manual pneumatic injection.
Power: 50 bhp
Chassis: Tubular space frame
Body: Alloy Fixed Head Coupe
Color: Pale blue
Wheels: FIAT pressed steel.
Description: The very first Bizzarrini.
Built in 1952.
This car is signed as the first Bizzarrini ever built.
Also called Macchinetta.
Owned by Bizzarrini.
Originally built in the 40s as barchetta with Fiat 500 Topolino engine with SIATA head.
Bought by University of Pisa student Giotto Bizzarrini.
Bizzarrini was obsessed with Ferrari sport cars so he used his own car to develop his ideas.
He mounted the engine far back in a tubular space frame chassis.
He also fit a early fuel pneumatic injection to the motorcycle DellOrto carbs.
Bizzarrini remember this car as fast as the Alfa Romeo 1900 berlina when he was working for Alfa Romeo, during tests.
Legend talk about Mr.Enzo Ferrari was surprised when he saw the car: If this man is able to built and drive that thing, Im sure he is suitable to enter Ferrari.
Fausto Manara, claims this car as the first Giotto Bizzarrini creation in 1952, so the car is eligibile for events like Mille Miglia.
This unique car is being to be sold with two engines (the first original and another that belongs to the history of the car).
Car was for sale in 1999.
Sold to Japan.
Now in Japan?
Racing History: The car raced five Historical 1000 Miglia and the best result was 17th in the general classment
Owner: Fausto Manara. Now sold.
Country: JP
Number Plate: BS 968128

PS: Our "friend" is, IMO, far worse than just being a troll. EVERY reputable car dealer/broker/collector in the world that I know (and that is a LOT of people) despise that man!
10-12-2007 07:06 PM
Originally Posted by dretceterini View Post
Dear Rene:

Originally Posted by TotalKore
Originally Posted by TotalKore
Allthough my father definately doesn't want me to do this (he allready said it about 10-20 times), I must get something off of my chest.

It's about the Bizzarini Book you've all been talking about. I know for fact that the only REAL writer of the book is my father, Jack Koobs de Hartog. He doesn't want me to get involved in these discussions, because it's not really my turf, and I don't really have a tenth of his knowledge in the Bizz business.

He doesn't really matter what's been said/is going to be said about him and/or the writing of the book. But I do!!! I'm just too proud of him to let ANYONE try to get away with his credits, with something HE wrote with blood sweat and tears, for years in a row. There has been sent a manuscript of the book to the late Royal Highness Prince Bernhard's office well before Olczyk even got involved...

Because we didn't have the financial means and the connections to publish the book, mr. Olczyk came in to play. He in his turn published the book and came up with photo's (and also put a stupid article of the Pagani Zonda in it, which absolutely had NOTHING to do with Bizzarini), which helped a lot off course. From then on, the only thing Olzcyk could say is "I wrote the book". My FATHER wrote it, my MOTHER translated it, I should know, I've watched the process for years.

He'll probably get very mad as soon as he sees this, but as stated earlier on, I'm WAY to proud of him to let ANYONE try to steel the credit for his work.

Jack Koobs de Hartog: The Genius behind the Bizz Book!!!!!


Renť Koobs de Hartog

P.S. I will not interfere again in this matter, just for my father, so I won't reply in any way anymore. I just wanted this off my chest.
Olczyk claims that he is God, and knows everything! He even said that on another thread on this BB! I am reasonably sure he will try and sue.

Everyone here knows what I think of fact, what the majority of the classic Italian car world thinks about him.
my name is Alvaro Seco and I live in Spain.
Some years ago I started to be interested about a bunch of beautiful and very exotic sport cars built by a italian engineer named Bizzarrini.

I started collecting magazines, internet pictures, buying brochures at ebay... and I publish most of these info and other info compliled from Internet in a web site, that is still online today (sorry... not very updated, lack of time). The site is

Then, I was contacted by Mr Jack Koobs The Hartog, who was also compiling info and trying to write a book about Mr Bizzarrini. Jack and I stated a fluid email relationship talking about Bizzarrinis, sending each other pictures, commnents, trying to sort chassis, pictures, dates, race results, owners.... etc. In some days we where sending each other up to 20 emails/day. It was a beautiful way to spend time, I liked it, was fun and Jack is a great guy to speak about cars.

When Jack got the book wrote, he sent to me a file by email, to correct, give advices and comments. Jack used and put in the book some comments literaly as I send it to him. So, I can say I was a bit involved in the creation process of the book, so I can say Mr Jack Koobd de Hartog is the real writer of the book about Bizzarrini. The same book Jack sent to me signed when wash fresh out of the print, the same book where my name appears in the contributors and thanks page.

May be the book contains some wrong info, or even was not wrote by Shakespeare with lots of beautiful literal style , but was a great attempt to sort some info about Mr Bizzarrini.

I consider Jack as friend. A very good friend. Was nice and fun to work with him, and I was very disgusted when I read some info about the book being rewrited, reprinted and resigned by other person that I KNOW was not the real author.

I think this was the same "person", who sent me sone ugly and disgusting emails, menacing me because in my web site some P538s barchettas were tagged as "replicas built in the 70's and 80's", info that everybody know is correct. There are even 90's Bizzarrinis, 5300 and so on..... in fact, we can say that in this very precise moment, it's very posible that a new Bizzarrini is being built from scratch, or using some old parts, and would being given one of these "lost chassis numbers". If a few months, we will see some adverts here and there about a "barn find Bizzarrini", obiously a 1965 chassis..... you know...bussiness.

Now, some years on, the story keeps going on with the same arguments: one guy alone against all other people when these people make commets about cars with unkwon or doubtful provenance... trying to be considered as a real one or linked with the real one or the people involvend with them, like Drogo, Volpi or Bizzarrini himself.

Please, stop.
Don't feed the troll.

Thanks a lot.
Alvaro Seco.
05-12-2007 03:22 PM

With all due respect, the Breadvan was never really refered to as a GTO. The only thing GTO was the windshield. It was unique in it's own right with a styling nuance used by Bizzarrini. Giotto Bizzarrini had nothing to do with the Iso FAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you think that is wrong ask him. Whats funny about the Iso design clone look, they used the new front end of the Breadvan not the efficient original design by Bizzarrini. It has since been returned to it's original design by the new owner.
04-03-2007 06:57 AM
2000 touring sp Sorry jamieandthemagi ,its not the same car. I have done the same mistake
04-03-2007 06:49 AM
jamieandthemagi Its for sale;
12-17-2006 10:12 PM
mateo37 I have decided to stay away from all this controversy and just tell about the years I owned, raced and enjoyed the REAL BREADVAN. Now to the bobbie pin story. Please bear with me as I am not one to tell a short story, so much is lost in the little details. Some time in 1966 a friend of mine Gary Wales called to tell me about a car he brought into the US, the Breadvan. It had been messaged and repainted after it arrived in Detroit. When I saw it here in California a few months latter I fell in love with it. It was still in its basic race trim sans the Lemans lights and the door numbers. One race seat with the battery where a passenger seat would be. The engine was puking oil like a street sweeper. The moment I got it home I started to rebuild the engine. It did not have a dry sump like so many people say. It was the original short wheel base motor built to Testa Rosa specs with red heads on each side. So tight was the aerodynamics that no battery would fit under the hood, ergo the reason it was in the front passenger seat area. I wanted a passenger seat so I needed to relocate the battery to the rear of the car. To say the car was sparse is an understatement. Paper thin aluminium and not much of a rear floor. As I got into the rear area I began to find "bobbi pins". What the hell are these doing here? And in a race car no less. I contacted Mr Volpi along with others to satisfy my curiosity. Volpi laughed, snickered and hinted around but would not be up front as to how they got there. Others told me that Volpi was kind of a play boy and would have fun with women in a manner as to get their bobbi pins to fall out in the back of the car. There is no way that a person could fit in the back area let alone lay down in it with another person. So I became a myth buster of sorts. I did find a one way that would validate the Italian playboy theme. Back lid open, women behind car leaning in and holding on. Full throttle to warp speed and you have bobbie pins. I leave the rest to your imagination. Remember bobbie pins were in fashion in the 60s and I was a lot younger.
12-16-2006 12:45 PM
gt601 Yes , yes!! Do tell!!
12-15-2006 04:13 AM
emr5503 Mateo,
Tell us about the bobbie pins.
12-15-2006 02:56 AM
2000 touring sp Iso Rivolta Breadvan

4 speed, Iso Competition BreadVan ( Like the Ferrari GTO Breadvan built at Drogo but designed by Giotto Bizzarrini ) Car is restored with the famous V8 Chevrolet 450 HP. Alloy Body

Is that a FAKE???
12-14-2006 02:22 PM
mateo37 Semantics or semantics, that's another issue. There are alot of ROLEX watches around, some from Rolex and some from the guy on the corner. Theres the real HARLEY EARL OLDSMOBILE made by General Motors that was destroyed, and the one that some guy on the corner put together and it sold for millions. I ask the question, which one is real? You decide. Just because it looks like a Duck and walks like a Duck, I'm still waiting for the quack. If in fact it was really built at Pier Drogo's Carrozzeria at the same time as 2819, and there is paper work substantiating it's construction, and Count Volpi along with Bizzarrini gave their blessing, then I will sing another tune. If the reality is that it was just a resurrected design put on some other chassis then call it what it really is, a reproduction. And not really a down to the nuts and bolts one. Do I hear the QUACK?????????
12-14-2006 01:34 AM
2000 touring sp Fake or Fake, that's is a big issue.
There is 2 or 3 Breadvans around, all from Drage, but all on diff chassis. So I expect that this is a genuine, not the Ferrari, but one of the other chassis.
12-13-2006 10:07 PM
The Mystery Breadvan

The mystery BREADVAN is not such a mystery to me. It is almost ludicrous for anyone, and I do mean ANYONE to connect this recreation of an original design and for that matter the original car to the REAL "FERRARI BREADVAN". I have carefully SCRUTINIZED all the photos that are available on the web and find that the car is a feeble attempted to make reference to the original car. The demensions from what I can see are off by a mile, as are many parts and shapes. So you may ask, how does this newby to this site have any idea as to what he is talking about? And secondly, how does this guy know anything about the REAL FERRARI BREADVAN? First let me tell you, there is not much that I don't know about the real car. I first bought 1962 Ferrari 250GT2819 "BREADVAN" in December 1967. Brought it home in California on the back of a car trailer because it was puking oil out of the back faster then you could put it in the front. I owned the car for many years and became familiar with every square inch of it, down to the bobbie pins found in the back (thats another story, and a good one I might add). The adventures good and bad owning this exciting car would fill a book. Sooooooo; I'm not putting the FAKE!!! mystery car down in any way, not by any stretch. The car that has reared its head of late, and this is just my personal opinion, is just a recreation and nothing more. Imitation is in its own right is a form of complimenting the original. Just don't try to fool the people about what it really is. Thanks for your time, Matthew Stewart Ettinger
This thread has more than 15 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome