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  Topic Review (Newest First)
05-31-2019 08:02 AM
tubut
Quote:
Originally Posted by draganalfa View Post
Thank you tubut!
nobody can help me?
I got a reply from Simon Moore this week. In addition to some of the concerns I already had about this document (among them the absence of a license plate number), he mentioned some additional things he called "unusual".

There have been a number of legitimate replica cars that have made in South America and are declared as such (e.g. Pur Sang). However, it appears some of these cars may also have received "replica papers" -- but not necessarily from the people who made the cars, which may be the reason why your papers do not create much excitement among experts.

Whether or not the document you posted pictures of is real or a fake would require more investigation. I suggest you either post pictures of the whole document here (including the front page and pages with registered owners), or, if you prefer, I can send you my e-mail address and the information can be exchanged privately with some experts.
05-15-2019 09:06 AM
draganalfa Thank you tubut!
nobody can help me?
05-02-2019 12:41 PM
tubut Hi Dragan,

Welcome to AlfaBB!

Simon Moore, who wrote in his excellent book "The Legendary 2.3" (one of the very best car books I know of, still available here), that he knew nothing about 2111048, 2111049 and 2111050 when the book was published in the year 2000, and surmised that these three chassis, which mark the end of the first series of 8C 2300 (after 2111050, the next car was numbered 2211051). I sent him a message with a link to this thread -- a lot may have changed in the almost 20 years since the book was published -- and I'm sure, if he doesn't know about the car, he will be happy to hear about these papers (and the car they may come from).

Is the an owner and/or a license plate listed in these Papers?
05-02-2019 08:53 AM
draganalfa
#2111048

Hi everyone,
I am a new in this forum and I would like to ask if anyone has information about a vehicle registration in the picture, which is registered in Pola (former Italy) to a car model Alfa Romeo 8C. n 2111048
I received this picture in Croatia and the guy who gave it to me claimed to have seen car and the model is really a 8C 2300 Monza "Stradale"!?!?

Please contact me if you have any info related to this matter.
Thanks in advance for your help!
dragan
07-31-2011 02:16 AM
iicarJohn
2111018's Brandone body

The Brandone body was removed from 2111018 quite some time earlier, two owners prior to the owner who had the chassis bodied back to Zagato configuration.

The Brandone body was fitted to a chassis that is claimed to be "2211110". It seems likely that there is a "story" here that is only partially described. A humorous part of the story is that it carried "Erdmann & Rossi" coachbuilding badges based on an off-hand remark as to a resemblance made by a guy who is no longer among the living. The body may still carry those incorrect badges for all I know.
07-31-2011 01:45 AM
PSk
Quote:
Originally Posted by iicarJohn View Post
During 1999 I saw 2111018 with Dino Cognolato's "Carrozzeria Nova Rinascente" where it was set to be bodied for it's UK owner, Peter Rae.
What a pity it lost the body that it had worn for most of it's life.

Crazy thing for the owner to do ???? Hope he kept it.
Pete
07-30-2011 09:18 AM
PG1964
Quote:
Originally Posted by basman007 View Post
These is are period photo's of Alfa Romeo 8C 2300 LM Spyder 2311249 (1934 Le Mans Winner) 1934. I don't know who's responsible for the coachwork.
I'm not an 8C expert, but the badge seems to me by Brianza.
07-26-2011 07:36 AM
basman007 Thank you for sharing some of 018's complex history, John

I like this forum/community
07-25-2011 10:14 AM
iicarJohn
2111018 or "2111018"

There is no need for fear ("... be afraid, ..." ??) unless one is considering spending money that one does not have. But, one would be wise to check certain cars out more carefully than others. It would be wise to check out any of these cars somewhat carefully before pretending that it is possible to establish a value.

At one time not all that long ago, it was possible to consider purchasing more than one car bearing the chassis number "2111018". At one time it was possible to consider purchasing the Brandone body while it was fitted to a chassis that bore yet another chassis number that was not its own ... while the body wore Erdmann & Rossi badges. A lovely car that was not as it seemed. Frankly, I don't know what that car calls itself today as it has carried at least three different chassis numbers in the last 20 years. I cannot be certain that it has always been the same chassis underneath the body but there are reasons to think that it was only the numbers that were changed.

There is much more to the story of each of these cars than meets the eye of the casual researcher. Each car is an individual that deserves more than to be lumped together with all the rest, each of which cannot have the same story no matter how much we might take comfort from the knowledge that what "could have happened" to this car is possible simply because it happened to that one. "Could have" does not make it so!

Of interest to this thread is the note that the number "2111018" on the second chassis was replaced with another number, leaving seemingly only one chassis bearing the chassis number 2111018 as its identity.

During 1999 I saw 2111018 with Dino Cognolato's "Carrozzeria Nova Rinascente" where it was set to be bodied for it's UK owner, Peter Rae. The car then went through the hands of Neil Corner and perhaps others? I last saw 2111018 in April of 2009 at Techno Classica (Essen) where was displayed by Lukas Huni. The car appeared to need some additional arch to the springs, front & rear ... or have its fenders ("wings") mounted a bit higher than they were. Perhaps it needed smaller tires? Some less-than perfect photos show what I saw ... and what Lukas Huni shared about the car.

Good luck with your studies. Keep your minds open to various possibilities in all forms. But, it is silly to fear what you might learn during a simple (or complex) study.
07-25-2011 02:59 AM
basman007 Thank you
07-24-2011 03:38 PM
TimNuvolari #2111018 today wears a Zagato Tourer body, either a well executed replica (Most likely) or a amazingly restored original (not likely). Whenever you read of a 1930's car miraculously surviving with an original body like that, be afraid, very afraid.
07-20-2011 02:41 AM
basman007 Thanks for all that information, wonderful

The body that's currently on 2111018, is that by Brandone?
07-19-2011 09:25 PM
TimNuvolari Odin

Yeah, that is exactly the way I read it.
07-19-2011 04:01 PM
Odin Thanks Tim.
So #2111003 and #2111004 never ran in Le Mans?
07-19-2011 02:55 PM
TimNuvolari What happened to them after Le Mans ?

#2111002 (Zagato Le Mans Spider) > Various owners > stint in Africa > Alfa Romeo Museum 1960's - TODAY
#2111005 (Zagato Le Mans Spider) > Various owners UK > NZ > US > Australia > Japan > Still in Japan ? (Messed about with shortened, now restored to original spec.'s)
#2111009 (Zagato Le Mans Spider) > Parted out 1932
#2111011 (Zagato Le Mans Spider) > Various UK > USA > UK
#2111018 (Zagato Short Chassis Spider) > Sold 1931 > Figoni Spider body fitted > Raced 1930's > Brandone Spider body fitted > Italy > Serge Pozzoli coll. 1950's onwards > UK > Taylor & Crawley c2003 asking ?? > ??
#2111040 (Zagato Short Chassis Spider) > 1940's Monza body fitted > Various European owners > 1950's Spider body fitted > Italy 1970's onwards (Replica Zagato Spider body fitted)
#2211062 (Touring Le Mans Long Chassis Spider) > Written Off > Chassis & Frame fitted to #2111025/ 2311212
#2211063 (Touring Le Mans Long Chassis Spider) > Various UK owners > still in UK today
#2211064 (Touring Le Mans Long Chassis Spider) > Various UK owners > Europe > Rebuilt with replica Touring Le Mans bodywork > Jack Braam Ruben/ Fineautomobiles.com 2011 asking ??
#2211065 (Touring Le Mans Long Chassis Spider) > Various European owners > Pininfarina DHC body fitted > UK 1930's - today > 1980's Replica Touring LM body fitted
#2211067 (Touring Le Mans Long Chassis Spider) > Various UK 1930's - today
#2211068 (Touring Le Mans Long Chassis Spider) > Disappeared 1930's > Found 1991 (Fake ?) > Italy 1991 - today
#2211092 (Touring Cabriolet Long Chassis) > Chinetti 1934 > Saloon body fitted 1930's > Various European owners > Zagato Le Mans Spider body fitted 1982 > Europe > Australia 1990's
#2211109 (Zagato Spider Short Chassis) (Figoni mod's ??) > Nuvolari 1936 > USA 1937 > Various American owners > Europe 1980's > Various > Peter Sachs USA 1992 onwards
#2211112 (Monza) > Various Europe > UK > USA 1960's - today
#2311201 (Touring Le Mans Long Chassis Spider) Various UK owners > Fred Simeone Coll. 1990 - TODAY
#2311202 (Touring Le Mans Long Chassis Spider) Various Australia 1930's - 1990 > Louwman Collection 1990 - TODAY
#2311203 (Touring Le Mans Long Chassis Spider) UK 1932/ 1933 > Italy 1934 Viotti Coupe body fitted > Various Italy > Guy griffiths/ Penny Woodley > USA mid 1990's > replica spider body fitted > Viotti Coupe body fitted
#2311204 (Touring Le Mans Long Chassis Spider) British owned 1930's - 1990's > Mexico > private collection USA late 1990's
#2311234 (Touring Short Chassis Spider) Chinetti 1930's > Stored > fitted Brandone body from #2111018 c1949 > Zagato Spider body fitted 1970's > UK 1990's > Fitted Replica Touring body
#2311249 (Brianza Le Mans Short Chassis Spider) Etancelin 1930's > UK 1930's > one owner since 1953 > Restored 1990's
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