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  Topic Review (Newest First)
08-09-2016 06:22 PM
iicarJohn
Gaspare Bona ... a correction

At the request of the owner of 6C0211412 I have researched additional documents relating to the car I listed above as "6C0211402". As it turns out, the Cuneo record for this car was not written as clearly as the prior Torino plate or the subsequent Varese plate record. The chassis number for the 6C1500 mentioned above as having been owned by Gaspare Bona is/was actually 6C0211412. I will attempt to correct the posting above but the appropriate buttons are not appearing for some reason. We shall see.
07-18-2015 11:27 AM
iicarJohn
Some clarity is in order?

It has been some time since I checked this thread.

Before certain errors mentioned here become accepted as "fact", I must point out the following:

6C0312902 was not the only Alfa Romeo owned and used by Gaspare Bona. I cannot pretend to know them all but he owned and used 6C0211412 (1500cc) from July 1928 to April 1930, hence in an overlapping time period with his ownership of 6C0312902. Shortly before selling 6C0312902, Gaspare Bona purchased the Gran Sport 6C8513075, a car which he owned until 14 June 1932. (Note: The chassis 6C0211412 is a correction (August 9 2106) from a previously posted error of "6C0211402")

Bona sold 6C0312902 on 19 August 1930 to a company named "Soc. S.A.P.R.A." (in Torino at Via S. Teresa 24) and I do not know if the "Soc. Sapra" was related in any way to either Bona or Consiglio. The recorded sales date from Soc. S.A.P.R.A. to Ignazio Consiglio was 10 February 1931 and the initial writing in the PRA record said Consiglio was living in Messina but this was corrected in the record to Torino. At this point, we cannot know with certainty when the address correction was made. Consiglio's racing license during 1933 shows him as being domiciled in Torino as of 1933. I wonder if Consiglio was working (or going to school?) in Torino during a portion of the early 1930's?

At this moment, I know of a photo showing 6C0312902 at the II Bobbio - Passo del Penice 14 June 1931. It should also be a nice photo of Consiglio and his co-driver. One week later, Consiglio was 8th in his class at the IV Biella - Oropa hill-climb and it is easy to assume that it was this car that he used.
In the meantime, Gaspare Bona owned and raced (occasionally) two Alfa Romeo 8C cars in succession (8C2211056 and then 8C2211051) from May 1932 to April 1936.

The PRA record during Consiglio's ownership remained without further note until more than one sale was recorded during 1983. The first 1983 notation records that the car was sold 1974 to a fellow who sold it 1983 to Aldo Cesaro. At that time (or shortly thereafter?), it seems that another car (with Zagato-style coachwork) may have taken the identity (using the paperwork of 6C0312902) while the "original car" (probably?) had already gone in another direction?

Unfortunately, not enough information has been shared about either car (both cars!) claiming the identity of 6C0312902 to allow us to form a truly informed opinion about what it was that transpired during the last thirty years or more.

So, it will not be enough to merely document the early history of chassis 6C0312902. We will also need to describe ... with some assurance ... what happened during more recent times.

Buon divertimento!

John

P.S. Consiglio raced during the 1950's in the Siata Daina Sport Coupe N. SL*0286*B. He reportedly said that he owned the car (and raced it many times) from 1952 to 1966 without ever registering it for the road. Sometimes what "should be" ... is not.
05-26-2015 11:45 AM
Messina Races Hi Martin,

For more info about the 6C Alfa Romeo SS Bona-Consiglio please contact me to this private email: [email protected]

Regards

Nuccio
05-26-2015 07:49 AM
Messina Races Hi Martin,

I am very happy to have found the current owner of the Alfa Romeo 6C 1750 SS (thanks for pointing this out) of Ignazio Consiglio. Please contact me at my private email: [email protected] for more details about the races and some pictures

Nuccio
05-26-2015 07:48 AM
Messina Races Hi Martin,

I am very happy to have found the current owner of the Alfa Romeo 6C 1750 SS (thanks for pointing this out) of Ignazio Consiglio. Please contact me at my private email: [email protected] for mere details about the races and some pictures

Nuccio
05-26-2015 07:06 AM
GT4 Paul Sheldon wrote a book of collated records of Grand prix and voiturette racing Volume 1 1900-1925 ISBN 0 9512433 0 6 First published in 1987.
There should be a volume 2 but alas I do not have that one sadly.
This should give lots of data and information.
Hope this helps somewhat.
I am doing a bit of research on my wife's Grand father Louis Plattner Born in Austria.
If anybody has some info on Louis, Plattner,.. Please
05-26-2015 06:34 AM
ar51matta Hi Nuccio,

I can confirm the purchasing date 2.10.1931, shown also in my papers. Be aware please the Alfa is a 6C 1750 SS, not a GS. It is very important for me to know what races my car participated. Can you give me more detailed informations please (martin.kapp (at) kapp-coburg.de
In April 1933 the 6C was sold to a new owner from Padua.
I highly appreciate your research, thank you for sharing all the info.

best regards, Martin
05-26-2015 05:59 AM
Messina Races Hi Jhon and Martin,

I have the info about the Gaspare Bona 6C Alfa Romeo 1750 GS because I have just completed writing a book on Coppa Vinci-Messina 1925-1932. Ignazio Consiglio, Messina gentleman driver, bought this car (engine n. 0312902 chassis n.031902) from Gaspare Bona 02.10.1931, and raced also in the Giro di Sicilia 1931 (retired, accident), Swiss G.P. 1932( ?), Circuit du Dauphiné - Grenoble (did not start), Grand Prix du Comminges (retired 5 lap mechanical failure), Rally di Montecarlo 1932 (63° place), Coppa Messina 1932 (5° place), Avellino Circuit (9° place).

Greatings from Sicilia
Nuccio - Messina Races
11-18-2008 02:00 PM
ar51matta
Bobbio-Penice 1931

Dear John,

I am very sorry about your feelings. I can assure you I never ever had intensions to teese you. The starting list shows Sgnazio as first name of Mr. Cosiglio as well as my italian papers from the Torino state register. I was puzzled as well as you are about this spelling.
I will send you right now offline the italian newspaper copy from 1931 to show you my serious interest. If you mail me your phone number I will call you back at no cost for you and I can maybe explain you other details of my car.
I have more than 1 Alfa and I learned my lessons in this "business". For me it is hobby and I have to use the night time, often I am on the road and the hobby has to stay in second row.

best regards
Martin
11-17-2008 05:16 PM
iicarJohn
Martin: Surely you mean "Ignazio Maria Consiglio"

... and not "Sgnazio" ...?

I would like very much to see the entry list that you have obtained, not just for the Alfa Romeo information it contains.

Consiglio also raced 1932 on the Biella - Oropa hillclimb. Perhaps in this same car? He was something like 8th in class (over 1500cc). By the 1950's, he or his son (or grandson?) was apparently in Messina and owned and raced a Siata Daina Gran Sport which was never registered for some reason. At least, that is what has been claimed.

Of course, you have not supplied anything whatsoever more than mere claims that you own one of his Alfa Romeo cars. No chassis number. No descriptive information. Niente. I would like to learn more about your car. You know what to do ... if you'd like me to work on developing more information. Not all of the dialogue needs to be public but at the moment I feel as if I am being "teased" publicly. I might just lose interest in this particular mystery?

A reminder: In between the other distractions of life, I am researching the general histories of more than 20,000 Italian cars on the path to describing those that are not yet well-described. If you'd like to have extra effort paid to yours, you must do something to inspire me to wish to make a particular effort. Otherwise, your car might be something like 15,000th (or higher) on the list of "to do" during my next research trip. Depending on what I come up with, your car might move up or down the list. Inspiration comes from many places, not just owners who pretend to wish to learn something more but can't be bothered to share the information that will make it possible ... or exciting or even emotionally fulfilling.

John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry
11-17-2008 04:24 PM
ar51matta
Bobbio-Penice 1931

John,

I got the starting list from the 1931 Bobbio-Penice hillclimb from a good friend at the Piacenza Car Club. i found my car with starting number 142, it was entered by Sgnazio Maria Consiglio. According to the Torino car register in my posession he was the owner of TO15515 after Bona.
So I am happy to have shed some light in the history of my car.
Starting number 150 was Cavalliere Ferrari, a total of 9 6C1750 participated, 1 6C2300 (Enzo Ferrari).

Martin
09-13-2008 11:16 PM
iicarJohn
Chassis number?

Hi Martin,

Are you going to make me do the research so that I can know the chassis/engine number of your car? Please share it one way or another. The more I have to work with, the better the chance I can dig up more for you. For us! I have a data-collection form prepared that I will send to you if you will share a direct email address (perhaps via PM?) or you can find the form elsewhere on this forum by searching here:

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/limi...-1500-a-2.html

I am presuming that when you write "GP" you are referring to Gaspare Bona?

Gaspare Bona, of Carignano near Torino, owned a few Alfa Romeo cars in the 1920's and 1930's. I'm not going to pretend that I know them all yet or have even found leads to them all. In 1928, he raced a 6C1500, not yet identified. Perhaps more than one? Angela Cherrett describes one car as a 6C1500 Sport and another as "6C1500MMS". Perhaps both designations refer to one car and perhaps not? With one car, he set a 1500cc class record on the Biella-Oropa hillclimb in 1928 that stood until 1931. I am guessing that he then owned another 6C in 1929, perhaps the car that you have that you say is a 1750SS. If it was sold to a local Scuderia in 1929 then this could be for tax reasons but there were also liability issues that might have been a primary motivating factor? Then there is a fourth series 6C1750GS from 1930/31 which was chassis 8513075. Looking more carefully at notes collected, I note that I am not certain as to precisely when he owned this car. It may have been that he got it during 1934 as a used car?

Bona owned AR 8C2300 N. 2211056 from new in May 1932 through July 1934 but in 1933 he also purchased 2211051 from Scuderia Ferrari and owned it until April 1936. So, it seems possible that there were times when Bona owned three Alfa Romeo sports/racing cars simultaneously.

Whatever you've learned about your car may help decribe Bona's history with other cars by implication. Similarly, studying his history with other cars may also have implications to your car's history?

All the best.

John de Boer
09-13-2008 03:46 PM
ar51matta
Gaspare Bona

John,

no. 142 is definitively my car, a 6C1750 SS. All the details are right, from front cover between shocks/frame, radiator protection screen, lights and mounting to the fenders, hood, mounting points for softtop, fuel tank cap aso.
Since GP sold the car to a societa in 1929, they had perhaps like a scuderia or just tax purposes. I have the excerpt from the Torino license plate register. As far as I know, GP bought an 8C in 1933.

Martin
09-13-2008 02:08 AM
iicarJohn
Gaspare Bona

Hi Martin,

This is interesting. A couple of years ago, a friend did research on a block of Torino license plates from 1934 onwards for a time while looking for history on a certain Alfa Romeo 8C. He took notes about other Alfa Romeo cars he noticed during his search. As a result, we know that Gaspare Bona owned a 1930 6C1750GS, with chassis N. 8513xxx but the Torino plate you mention was issued 1929 so could not have been issued to that particular car. It must have been on an earlier car. I have not researched the plate yet but it is on my to-do list as I have seen a photo in Italy of a car at the start of a hillclimb (probably the Bobbio-Penice 1931) bearing the race #142 and showing the Torino plate you mention. It was identified at least tentatively as a 6C1500 from the notes I saw but that is not necessarily accurate. I have a photocopy of that photo which I can try to locate for you. I will share a scan in exchange for some more detail about your car. I presume you have a copy of the visura or estratto cronologico already that tells you that it is the same car that you own? I would tend to think that Bona had moved into his 1930 car (or even a later one?) by the time of the 1931 Bobbio-Penice event but only further research will tell. It is possible that he kept two cars, one a 6C1750 and one a 6C1500 and ran the 6C1500 on the Bobbio-Penice with the intent of gaining a 1500cc class prize? Unfortunately, although I have collected a few numbers and a bit of related data, I have not yet found an entry list. It would be a welcome addition to our research notes!

More to follow?

John
09-12-2008 01:15 PM
ar51matta John,

I own the 6C of Gaspare Bona and I am loocking for everything about this car. I have a picture from the 1931 Bobbio-Penice , TO15515 licence plate, but cannot read the starting number on the hood. A starting list would be very helpfull.

Martin
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