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  Topic Review (Newest First)
09-05-2012 05:35 PM
Tim-Spruill We did just fine during the storm. Never lost power for more than a minute at a time. Sadly I got very little car work done during the time off.

I have been charging all my cars with ES-12 for several years now and can get 40s at the vents. I don't do anything with 134a. In the spider I could get down to the high 30s but there is so little air flow in an S3a spider that is really does not help much.

09-02-2012 11:44 AM
mkeith Did you guys ride out the storm OK?

Charge the system with R12 if you can. I've been using it lately & I've gotten mid 40 vent temps from stock Spider A/C systems. Those were Motronic cars; so the dual fans helped.
09-02-2012 11:08 AM
Tim-Spruill The current status of the project is that I have a leak to fix and am waiting on the compressor to come back from the folks I got it from. I ended up finding a friend of a friend who was an actual ac guy. He came over and looked into it. You might be right. When he put some 134a in the system it worked great. But he brought a sniffer and we located a leak and also a potential problem with the new compressor. I called up my supplier and they agreed to take it back and inspect it. Latest is that they are changing the clutch and leak checking the whole thing. I called them a couple days ago and they did not have any answers for me. Then we had a storm. I need to call them back.

09-01-2012 10:11 PM
mkeith Are you still having problems with this A/C job? Have you tried a different guage set? In your first post, it sounded to me like your blue hose is plugged. It's happened to me more than once. Refrigerant will pass from the yellow hose to the manifold, but it will not get into the system due to the clog. Therefore, although there is nothing getting into the system, the low side gauge will still show pressure.
07-09-2012 03:01 PM
Joe Papa Sr here is one:
1972-1990 Ford Mazda Renault Saab Dodge AC Compressor | eBay Romeo|Year:1987|Model:Spider&hash

I have bought comps from these guys and believe they are professionals with a decent product. Rebuilt with warranty. Of course, new would be about $210 or so......
07-09-2012 02:57 PM
Tim-Spruill That is good information to have. I am still learning the concepts of a/c systems. I learn quick but have had to teach myself so far. Need to take a class or something.

07-09-2012 02:52 PM
Tim-Spruill This was a brand new compressor out of the box from Sanden. Paid $209 plus shipping. These guys are really nice out of Texas. "AC Parts" is the company name. Called them up and they said to send it back and they would take a look. I guess we won't talk money until they open it up and test it. If I have to pay I have to pay. Oh well. That is the price for being too busy to take care of things when they happen.

If anyone needs a new compressor that is a sanden and matches the original perfectly, these are the guys to get it from. I had to have them put a used head on it to match the factory fittings but that was it. No charge even.

07-09-2012 02:51 PM
Joe Papa Sr With HC's, I vac down to about 10HG, then add the HC as liquid. This is recomended as compared to R134a or even R12 cuz HC's are not a homogeneous chemical compound. HC's are 2-3 compounds stuffed in a can, and if introduced as gas it will separate and not behave well, but still, not a big deal!

It will eventually mix with some cycling.

Trace water has no effect on ac system with HC's. I wouldnt worry about trace water. Thats what the drier is for- a dryer should absorb up to about 10 milliliters of water.
07-09-2012 02:47 PM
Joe Papa Sr From last summer, I doubt they will honor a warranty of only 90 days. Way too long ago. But, how much $$ are you thinking to spend on a "new" comp? I have a good source I might look up for you if youd like........
07-09-2012 08:04 AM
Tim-Spruill Will do. I am going to take the compressor out tonight. Calling the company I purchased it from at lunch today. Hopefully they will take it back and fix the leak or replace it. The 90 day warranty went up last summer when I bought it. I have been too busy to mess with it since then. If they won't do it under warranty I may send it back for work anyways. If they want an arm and a leg I will take it to some place locally and have it done. Quicker return that way.

I will everyone know the results when it is complete. I have a wrecked milano coming later in the month. Might grab the compressor off that car in the mean time.

07-09-2012 07:51 AM
Roadtrip Assuming no Expansion or POA valve blockages, I think you're down to a compressor problem. Let us know how it goes when you get a new compressor.
07-09-2012 07:37 AM
Tim-Spruill I am using the can upside down. The only instructions I have not followed from their company is regarding vacuuming the system. They say not to start with a vacuum. That makes no sense to me and when I called they said their reasoning was to do with overcharging. They say their system does not interact with moisture in the same as traditional refrigerants and they are correct, but any moisture can freeze if the temps get too low so I believe it is better to suck it out rather than have humid air in there. Technically a properly charged system should not go below 32 but I am not perfect and neither is the system so why chance an ice blockage that can blow out your hoses.

Ironically, I never put more than 60 psi in there when I was trying to charge. Guess I got lucky. I just opened the can and let in what it would take.

07-09-2012 07:28 AM
Roadtrip Tim - Are you installing the ES-12 as a liquid? Like Papajam says. ES-12a is an HC refrigerant and must be installed with the can upside down and as a liquid, unlike R-134a. You should go back and print out the installation instructions from the Enviro-safe website:


4 - Connect gauges and hoses. With compressor off, open cylinder "liquid" valve or invert can to install ENVIRO-SAFE on low pressure side of compressor (installing as a liquid will not harm the compressor). Establish flow. After an initial minimum charge is achieved, start compressor and set system to high. Continue adding ENVIRO-SAFE as needed to achieve either the proper amount as determined by the equivalency ratio or the proper pressure level according to manufacturer's specifications. DO NOT OVERCHARGE! Exceeding 60 psig on the low side may damage compressor. In some cases, clearing the site glass overcharges the unit. Any overcharge may cause loss of cooling efficiency.

I have used ES-12 in an old Jeep R-12 system and found it was inexpensive and worked extremely well.
07-09-2012 06:08 AM
papajam Turn the can of refrigerant upside down. This puts the refrigerant in as a liquid, not a gas.
07-09-2012 05:54 AM
Tim-Spruill John,

you ask good questions. Yes, the can is open. I can feed gas into the system. I still have the r12 fittings on the compressor because that is what my gauge set uses. It is old but works well.

I did exactly as you were thinking. After I got no results on the low side, I opened the high side valve to feed in some refrigerant and all I really ended up with is equal pressures on both gauges. The compressor still would not come on and when I shorted it on it would not compress.

Now here is the good and bad news. I friend of a friend who is an a/c guy came over this weekend to help with my troubles. With his help we located two leaks. One under the dash at the evaporator exit fitting and the other at the shaft seal of the compressor. Since the compressor is new I am going to send it back and have them fix it and test it. I will work with my other leak in the mean time. This still does not solve my issue of the compressor not working but it is a step in the right direction.

Just fyi, I am using ES-12 rather than 134a. There have been many threads on here and other forums about it being dangerous. Leave that there, not here. I am huge proponent of that refrigerant for our cars because it is more efficient. On that same note though, my friend did a test charge for leak sniffing and the compressor worked just fine for that. I am wondering if the specific refrigerant makes a difference. I have run es-12 in all my alfas for several years now with no issues. I don't see why it would be different now.

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