Goodwood is killing cars this year again - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-09-2018, 05:18 PM Thread Starter
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Goodwood is killing cars this year again

Youtube has the races and the accidents are unfortunately spectacular. If your dream car is a Lotus Cortina, probably pay not to watch:

IMO it is time they calmed it down. Won't be any cars left to race soon ...
Pete

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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-09-2018, 09:14 PM
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Treating vintage cars as expendable commodities is just plain wrong.

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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-10-2018, 01:24 AM
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My take on it is a little different.
The last time I rember seeing something I thought was 'just plain wrong'...was a bunch of old cars crawling around a race track pretending to 'race'. It was little more than a parade. Pretty, but uninspiring.

This stuff is inspiring, from lots of perspectives. What would you rather take your kid (or grandkids) to see?

Expendable? I'll eat some humble pie if that Cortina doesn't resurface - but only a small piece.

Good on 'em I say.
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-10-2018, 01:39 AM Thread Starter
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Ranz,

There is a very good and entertaining middle ground. Plus racing with complete contempt for the cars keeps the really interesting stuff away, and when winning becomes the most important thing the variety disappears because everybody works out which is the best car for that class/race and they all buy that.

Been there and seen this happen, at admittedly a very much smaller scale in NZ. When I first got involved in NZ historic/classic racing it was amazing ... then the winning became more important and cars were lost due to accidents and it pretty much ended with people buying Vauxhall Vivas because they were cheap and turning them into wild race cars to blow the Lotus Cortinas away. Same thing happened with the 2 door cars, everybody bought a 911 or 240Z ...

We used to have D-types, Toothpaste tube Connaught (might have been destroyed in a garage fire), Lister Jaguars, Ferrari Boxers, Dinos, Daytonas, GTAs (crashed and had to be sold to pay for the repairs I assume) ... many disappeared over the years into over restored vehicles, that maybe wouldn't have if the racing had been more controlled ...

I enjoy watching Goodwood too, and most of the driving is fantastic, but the going for gaps that simply do not exist is NOT what would have happened back in those days. Motor racing back in the Moss days involved far less rubbing than the modern version of over safe and over rule controlled, extremely even cars, where the only way to pass is to push somebody off the track. There was sportsmanship back then. Goodwood sometimes looks like BTCC drivers sitting in irreplaceable historic cars, deliberately trying to put as many dents in them as possible ...

Its complex, I admit
Pete
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-10-2018, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
"Plus racing with complete contempt for the cars . . ."

This pretty much defines it, Pete. Those iconic cars getting rolled into lumps often demand a level of skill that their owners---often with rather more wealth than driving talent---lack. There's also an element of conspicuous consumption here that's a bit tawdry. It sorta reminds me of the fey hard rockers ritually destroying their guitars on stage. While there is real racing, pretending to do it in 60 year old antiques ain't it. I think the US style of vintage racing which sharply penalizes metal-to-metal contact is a more honest recognition of the skills present in a typical vintage race. Full disclosure: I am not a racer, never have been. I just like old sports cars, especially Alfas, and hate to see them trashed.

But, like you say, it's complex.
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-10-2018, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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I think the best way to save these old cars is to make modern racing bin the slick tyre and wings. Then 4 wheel drifting will return and so will excitement ...

But it is more complex than that, ie. all the cars are identical, hence passing is close to impossible. In the old days, some cars braked well, while others got out of the corner well, etc. ... meaning each car had it's unique advantages, enabling passing ...
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-11-2018, 03:34 AM
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Sorry , I do not agree (but hey I race myself..)
I do not agree that they do contempt the cars. Point is: Goodwood is a high speed track. So most are most of the time on the edge. It takes not much to go over the edge. I have immense respect for the guys that race AND cherisch these cars the way they show at Goodwood. .
There are many very good and proffesional drivers going to goodwood. they do not treat the cars differently than when they were raced when new. And if they are treated better, not worse.
If it are cars with racing history they probably are fixed allready many times in the past...

I do not have the money to throw the Breadvan around like that, but man I love watching it. That car also had damage in its past. looks well kept to me now.

In the end its only metal and plastic
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-11-2018, 03:38 AM
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Besides that: there will be a time (sooner than we think maybe too) that racing (not only for historics) like this is no longer allowed or will become impossible (oil reserves etc), so lets enjoy while we can.just looking at static cars or parades does not work for me...
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-12-2018, 12:20 AM
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and on the demolished Lotus Cortina: how many do you want of those/ certainly less rare than a GTA.
https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Se...=lotus+cortina
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-12-2018, 01:18 AM
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I have been visiting Goodwood for years, I live just down the road. Yes there are some shunts, there were a few in the Kinrara Trophy on Friday, cars much more valuable than the Cortina, but minor shunts. But over the years there have been very few totals, like the Cortina in the St Marys Trophy race on Sunday, we were there but on a different part of the course. I was talking to a friend who has some knowledge of Cortinas and he dismissed the rarity, for racing a shell from South Africa, same strengthening as the Lotus could be used to rebuild it, it will probably be at Goodwood next year.

As for the use of classic cars for racing, if they wernt, we would not have seen the exciting, highly skilled drive of Phil Keen in the Lister Jag in the Sussex Trophy, started delayed from the pit lane with back marks slow off the grid, leading cars were already at Madgewick when he got away, but he went on to finish 1st, phenomenal! More exciting than many F1 races.
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-12-2018, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Veep View Post
and on the demolished Lotus Cortina: how many do you want of those/ certainly less rare than a GTA.
https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Se...=lotus+cortina
And didnt your young Mr Hart do well in his GTA, a rising star.
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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-12-2018, 01:51 AM Thread Starter
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Proof that awesome classic/historic racing does not have to involve crashing into each other, and yes this was at Goodwood:

You guys are missing the point, and it is sad that a Lotus Cortina is no more, or needs a road car to die so he can race on. The number of 2 door Mk1 Cortinas is not what it used to be ... and that could very well have been the GTA (in fact I thought it was as there was so much red).

Yes these cars should be used, yes they should be raced, but it should not be in win at ANY cost racing. I used to club race and I raced to win, but if I bent my car it was my money so there was never the at any cost attitude.

Hiring professional drivers and telling them to go and win is NOT what classic/historic racing is about. It IS and ALWAYS will be about the cars. A professional racing driver has grown up not giving a flying **** about the car because that it is just a tool to aid his career ... they have NO place in classic/historic racing, and sorry there is no way REAL racing involves pushing the other car out of the way like we see the E-types do at Goodwood. It's pathetic.

Otherwise Goodwood is bloody fantastic ... just get rid of the **** the car attitude by some please. I mean heck that Barracuda braking effort against the GTA was totally ****en stupid, was never going to pull it off ... he should be sent home before he kills somebody.
Pete
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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-12-2018, 01:55 AM
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Pete, the St Marys cup race on Sunday was for the owners, the pro drivers raced on Saturday, it was the owner of the Cortina who stuffed it, a pro driver may have not got into that position.

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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-12-2018, 06:24 AM
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PSk , I am not missing your point, I even respect your point of view. I only have another, different, opinion, which I will not change also. So lets agree to disagree
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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-12-2018, 03:58 PM Thread Starter
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Okay.

I will admit I change my mind on this subject often ... even in the same day 🙂
Pete
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