Lemons/Chump problems - Page 21 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #301 of 348 (permalink) Old 05-04-2018, 06:02 AM
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Half way down this page Super Verde

Also discussion here http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/mila...rease-etc.html
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post #302 of 348 (permalink) Old 05-04-2018, 07:19 AM
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It's years since I raced in our Lemon's Verde (which I believe was finally trashed a month or so ago after all these years of racing) but I think all we did was to remove the power steering belt. Brian, did we remove the pump and plumbing as well? All I know is we didn't do anything special and it held up for many years of racing. We never had any issues steering with it unassisted.

As for the ABS, we did remove ours, it can be a little tricky getting the new box in as the bolt/nuts are a little hard to reach. I remember lying on my back looking up in the footwell shouting out curses and I think there was a little minor sawzall action as I think we had a GTV6 box instead of the Milano which shouldn't need any mods.

We did as you mentioned and pulled out the sunroof and riveted in a panel. You can also see the cleaner sunroof delete I did on my old (non Lemons) Verde here: Alfa Milano Registry - Sunroof Delete which is obviously not needed in a race car but it was fun!

We did have some cooling issues and first tried a new stock Verde radiator but still had the issues so eventually went with an aluminum one from Jegs that was close enough to make it fit fairly easily. We also added an oil cooler, I don't remember having any cooling issues after that.

We used the stock verde gauge cluster but did remove the ARC. One thing to note is if you remove the ARC you need to deal with the missing alternator/battery light which acts as an exciter to get the alternator charging the battery. We didn't know this at first and had no charging going on, we later rigged a little light in the dash that did the trick.

Good luck, these are great Lemons cars.

Kevin
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post #303 of 348 (permalink) Old 05-04-2018, 07:25 AM
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Thanks Kevin - very helpful.

When you say your verde was trashed, what do you mean? crashed destroyed or literally thrown away?

On that note, if ANYONE here has an Alfa racer they want to part with it, I'm all ears. Would prefer to buy a complete car and pick up the ball on development than start from 100% scratch.

Thanks! -Paul
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post #304 of 348 (permalink) Old 05-04-2018, 08:16 AM
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Ditch it. I run an Alfetta non power rack, steering effort is fine. Ed's right though the rate is a little slow.
Respectfully I disagree. I have kept the power steering in my LeMons race car for the 10 years I have been running it, that along with keeping the stock brake master cylinder WITH the booster is a good idea in my opinion.

Because I run a big fuel cell I can extend some my drivers stints to 4 hours on a lot of tracks - crazy right? Why? Because the driver doesn't have to work very hard to drive the car we stay fresher and just as importantly safer. Long stints give us an advantage in our lap count and with 5 second place finishes (No wins) over the years we have done pretty well.

The power steering rack is fairly robust with a few changes. First you need to pin it together where it screws apart or it WILL come apart on you some time. Fresh hoses and a fluid flush along with washing out the reservoir is a good idea. Lastly I reseal the pump with O-ring and a seal to eliminate the annoying little leaks it has. The belt gets changed every year or two as well. Any deficiency in the pumps mounting bolts will also show up at some point if you don't go over them (Loctite the bolts that are not the adjuster bolts. Oh yes the mounting bolts / mounts need to be gone over whether its a power rack or de powered - they will loosen up eventually.

In 10 years and 24,000 plus miles of racing the power steering system has caused me a problem in 2 races. When it came apart and puked its oil we screwed it back together and snipped the drive belt. We were back racing in 4 minutes. the next time an oring in one of the hard lines failed and we "fixed" it even quicker.

But do as you wish. I just think that with all there is going on around you in a LeMons race making it easier for the driver is a good idea. Also with the power steering you can switch to a smaller diameter steering wheel which has the effect of quickening the steering ratio.

In my hardcore EP race GTV6 I use a depowered Milano rack to quicken up the steering. With wider tires I sure would not want to race that car in endurance racing.

Prior to the race at Thompson Speedway I had injured my left shoulder and having power steering was a big help in the race. Here is a short video of me trying to take it easy on my shoulder during the race.

Greg


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post #305 of 348 (permalink) Old 05-04-2018, 02:03 PM Thread Starter
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Steering rack

I'm with Greg on this one. On the 5 Series Bimmer we bought to run while doing the transmission conversion to the GTV6 we put the power steering back on and the car is much easier to drive. I FINALLY found a new body for the GTV6 and it came with a Verde motor in it and a P/S rack. It is our intention to make the rack work with power and to really be wack we're adding 4 channel ABS to the car.
Paul, if you are in the Bay Area reach out to me and I'll be happy to give you all the pointers about running a transaxle car in Lemons.
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post #306 of 348 (permalink) Old 05-04-2018, 09:09 PM
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Thanks Kevin - very helpful.

When you say your verde was trashed, what do you mean? crashed destroyed or literally thrown away?

On that note, if ANYONE here has an Alfa racer they want to part with it, I'm all ears. Would prefer to buy a complete car and pick up the ball on development than start from 100% scratch.

Thanks! -Paul
Punted into a wall, from what I understand, too much damage to fix!

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post #307 of 348 (permalink) Old 05-04-2018, 10:13 PM Thread Starter
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Pics of Brian's car

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post #308 of 348 (permalink) Old 05-04-2018, 10:15 PM Thread Starter
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post #309 of 348 (permalink) Old 05-05-2018, 07:38 AM
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Punted into a wall, from what I understand, too much damage to fix!
Oh that sucks! Sorry man. Building another or moving on?
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post #310 of 348 (permalink) Old 05-05-2018, 10:02 AM
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Oh that sucks! Sorry man. Building another or moving on?
They have a new car in the works. I won't spoil the surprise, but it should be awesome.

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Past: 71, 74 Spiders, 2x 74 Berlina, 74 GTV, 76 Alfetta GT, 88 Milano 3.0, 97 164LS
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post #311 of 348 (permalink) Old 05-05-2018, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
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New car

The new car has been in the works for years and knowing Brian and Tom it will be a great car.

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post #312 of 348 (permalink) Old 05-07-2018, 06:44 AM
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Kevin, I think the radiator was from Summit, it was recommended by somebody on this BB I think. One can search the BB for the link, it was posted here. One benefit of the Summit radiator was that there was no longer any need for a 1-3/4" to 2" step up/down hose, the radiator has all 2" inlets and outlets, so you can just go to Autozone, find 2" hoses with the proper curvature, and start cutting. The other advantage was that it was less than $200, a fraction of the price of a new Verde radiator. I think it was sized for a 5.0 V8.

We also added a remote oil cooler. We had no cooling issues after doing all of this, including running all day in 113 degree heat at Buttonwillow a few years ago.

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post #313 of 348 (permalink) Old 05-30-2018, 07:46 AM
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OK, so @Caxny and I are finally building a car....GTV6 instead of a Milano. In the stripping process and have some questions:

* Helmet room/roll bar legality: It seems this is going to be tight. I'm 6'2" and we may have a driver even taller. I assume we should buy and test fit/mount a seat before doing the cage so we make sure that the roll bar/main hoop will be high enough and we also get the harness bar in the right spot?

* Any recommended seats and mounting methods? being lemons, we are leaning towards a sparco sprint entry level seat, but if that's a mistake, let us know. Whatever seat will need to be mounted so its adjustable - how do we get it low enough for adequate helmet room?

* Dashboard - seems a shame to completely rip this out as the guages all work and the center binnacle has lots of spaces for switches. Do you recommend keeping the dash, removing the dash but reusing the guage/switch binnacles or do people chuck this altogether? I've seen both on gtv6s online and one where a center crossbar was implemented with stock dashboard.

Thanks! Look forward to joining you guys, hopefully for a debut at buttonwillow in Sept.
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post #314 of 348 (permalink) Old 05-30-2018, 01:02 PM Thread Starter
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Tips for building a Lemons GTV6

I sent you a PM. Get back to me if you would like a ton of info and insights.
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post #315 of 348 (permalink) Old 05-30-2018, 10:13 PM
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OK, so @Caxny and I are finally building a car....GTV6 instead of a Milano. In the stripping process and have some questions:

* Helmet room/roll bar legality: It seems this is going to be tight. I'm 6'2" and we may have a driver even taller. I assume we should buy and test fit/mount a seat before doing the cage so we make sure that the roll bar/main hoop will be high enough and we also get the harness bar in the right spot?

* Any recommended seats and mounting methods? being lemons, we are leaning towards a sparco sprint entry level seat, but if that's a mistake, let us know. Whatever seat will need to be mounted so its adjustable - how do we get it low enough for adequate helmet room?

* Dashboard - seems a shame to completely rip this out as the guages all work and the center binnacle has lots of spaces for switches. Do you recommend keeping the dash, removing the dash but reusing the guage/switch binnacles or do people chuck this altogether? I've seen both on gtv6s online and one where a center crossbar was implemented with stock dashboard.

Thanks! Look forward to joining you guys, hopefully for a debut at buttonwillow in Sept.
Congrats!

Definitely buy the seat first. They make side mount brackets so ideally you can get the bottom as close to the floor or on the floor. We have a used Sparco that's comfy.

I am all for saving and sell was much as possible to help keep other Alfas on the road. If you can pull the dash do it, sell it to recoup funds and it will also lighten the car. You can keep the gauges if you want and figure out how to mount them somewhere.

This season we are working more on lightening the car since we can't really add power. The Milano was pretty reliable and we finished our first race but we will need to focus on brake cooling and lightening to be more competitive.

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Ian Lomax - Current: 1973 Berlina, 1984 GTV6, 1987 Milano Platinum "racecar"
Past: 71, 74 Spiders, 2x 74 Berlina, 74 GTV, 76 Alfetta GT, 88 Milano 3.0, 97 164LS
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