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post #16 of 348 (permalink) Old 07-30-2010, 11:43 AM Thread Starter
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Wheel bearings

On both of our cars we repack the wheel bearings before every event. We use a high quality grease and have never had a problem. I also believe in bringing lots of spares as I figure whatever we have won't be what breaks. The last two events we've had transmission problems but because we're only running one car at this event and the transmission is out of the second car we're going to have it with us.

Wes
Winner 24 Hours of Lemons, Finally
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post #17 of 348 (permalink) Old 12-21-2010, 12:47 PM
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I saw some photos from the Arse freeze a Palooza with what appeared to be two Alfettas running in the race. Was one of those cars yours Wes? How about posting some photos or a link or a story or something. I am sure lots of us would love to hear how it went.

If someone has any in car video that would be really great as well.

Any problems with the cars? How is the 24 valve conversion going?

We Alfa LeMons racers have to stick together.

Greg

1972 Berlina Vintage Racer, 1987 Milano Platinum (LeMons Car), 1982 GTV6 EP Race Car, 1974 GTV Vintage Race Car, 2012 VW GTI stage II, 1966 Corvette Coupe 327-350, 2007 Triumph T100 Bonneville. Dearly departed: 1971 Fiat 124 Spider, 1983 Saab 900 Turbo, 2004 Saab 9-3 Aero, 1995 BMW 540i Sport, 2014 Audi A4 (swamped)
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post #18 of 348 (permalink) Old 12-23-2010, 08:55 AM
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Arse Freeze, Dec LeMons

Results of Alfas, Maser, and a Citroen:
Pos No. Name Class Make/Model Laps Best Tm
69 34 Team California Mille A 1979/Alfa Romeo/Sprint Veloce 216 02:21.5
124 19 Alien Magoos B 1979/Alfa Romeo/Alfetta GT (Good Tabasco) 130 02:30.7
143 419 Dead-Head-Racing B 1973/Alfa Romeo/Spider 65 02:24.6
151 530 Rot Box Racing A 1976/Alfa Romeo/Alfetta 37 02:31.0

121 71 Air Prance Oui We Can-can C 1971/Citroen/D-Special (ID19 / DS) 137 02:50.8
125 185 Pendejo Engineering C 1980/Maserati/QuattroPorte 129 02:38.1

The Spider had a MAJOR head gasket failure. Etched a lot of metal between 3-4 cylinder.
Alfetta (530?) had lots of troubles in the trans/clutch area.
Alfetta (34) was running, but got black flagged on Sunday.
Alfetta (16?) not sure, saw it up on jack stands a lot, oil cooler??
WOW and OMG!! My first LeMons race. Not in an Alfa, sorry. I got a ride, last minute to fill in driving a 5 liter Mustang for a "virgin" team. Placed 134 (oil pressure and auto trans issues) out of 163 cars that started. Yep, 163 cars started on Sat. And about 100 were driving on Sunday morning.
Pretty intoxicating driving a big motor, great brakes car. We were probably in the top 2/3 of cars by lap time (best 2:26 on Sat) so I got to pass quite often. Not my experience driving my stock Alfetta GT

Paul Blankenship AROSC
76 Alfetta GT -Track and daily driver; 88 Milano - a continuing project

Last edited by sidewaysalfa; 12-30-2010 at 11:11 AM.
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post #19 of 348 (permalink) Old 12-30-2010, 07:08 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by sidewaysalfa View Post
Not sure on the #34 Alfetta position as it did not show up on Sunday's time sheet, so laps were from Saturday.
Actually you just need to look further up the results sheet to find us. After spinning for the 3rd time (what a bonehead) I put us on the trailer because of the mandatory 3 hour black flag and there were only 2 1/2 hours left in the race. We still managed to finish in 69th. The track was way more fun then I thought it would be and it is very tough to drive until you get to know it. The lack of visual markers was hard to deal with in the beginning. I would love to go back but the time of year is tough for me.

The 24valve conversion is starting to move ahead. We have a new team member that just joined us who owns a prototype machine shop. This will be a really big help in getting this car done. We are shooting for having the car done for the Sears Pointless race with the 2.5 still in it and having the motor swap done in time for Going for Broken at Reno in May. Finally a real 24 Hour on the West Coast with a new car, what could possibly go wrong? It should be fun.

Wes
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post #20 of 348 (permalink) Old 01-29-2012, 09:47 AM
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Any of you guys still in the fray? I'm Chumpin" out my 78 Fetta hoping for an April debut at Road America.

Being a virgin to both endurance racing and Alfas (all my previous fun was had in a Mustang or Spitfire) this thread is VERY interesting to me. My initial concerns are #1 brake wear (I will be using Milano fronts with the Alfetta rears) and #2 tire wear (probably 205/50r15). I will have GTV6 springs and bars as well as an aftermarket front and rear sway bar (1" front?).

All rubber items have been replaced, ignition renewed, wiring redone (somebody had an affinity for crimp connectors!), new fluids everywhere. Spica has been tuned and timed. Shifter shows no signs of wear. Transaxle shifts well w/ no nasty noises.

Apart from cage, seat and harness am I missing anything?
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post #21 of 348 (permalink) Old 01-29-2012, 10:06 AM
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Wes is actually in the process of buying our GTV-6 and adding it to their stable. We loved the car but I and another team member moved for work, which made keeping the team together harder.

My experience is the brakes and tires lasted pretty well. Never had to do brakes during a race, only had to change a couple of tires. The transaxle will overheat; we ended up putting a cooler on ours. Feel free to email me with any ChumpCar questions, but you'll get WAY better Alfa info here - even after two years with the car, I am far from expert.

Also, Wes doesn't need the 14 extra wheels we have (GTV-6 Speedlines) - we will dump them cheap.

- rob
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post #22 of 348 (permalink) Old 01-29-2012, 10:32 AM
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We ran some ineffectual cooling to our transaxle and rear brakes, which may have helped.

Cooling our v6 was an issue, we ended up using some of our residual value on a radiator and then an oil cooler. No issues after that.

We had front wheel bearing problems once or twice. Got into the habit of checking them after every race day, repacking them after every race, and replacing them once in a while.

Bring spares. Alfetta wheel bearings and donuts are hard to find on a Monday morning when you have the phone numbers and web pages of every supplier globally right in front of you. On a Saturday evening in east dumbf*ck Nevada it won't get any easier.

We ran whatever Carbotech pad Andy from Performatek recommended, not cheap but easily lasted 2+ races and stopped the car on a dime. We ran Dunlop Direnza star spec tires.

Oh, the rear calipers from a spider are a direct bolt in replacement for the Alfetta calipers. You lose the ebrake, but you also get rid of a lot of complexity. You can even use the same pads.

hth,

bs
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post #23 of 348 (permalink) Old 01-29-2012, 04:21 PM
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Transaxle Alfas In Lemons/Chump car

We have run 4 races in our Martini and Rusty Milano and done a bunch of development work on the car. The cars can be fast and reliable.....

Here is what we have found:

Throw out anything and everything that you don't need. Try to keep what is left as close to stock as possible to keep the car reliable. Go through every system in the car inspect, service and repair!

Currently the Specs of our car are as follows:

1. 3.0 164s v-6 with motronic. 3 Liter Milano Verde Exhaust Manifolds and stock 2.5 liter plenum.
2. 4:10 Rear Axle LSD, and extra friction plates. Redline lube.
3. almost 3 degrees of negative camber in the front end (this reduces understeer a great deal. This helps tire wear a great deal too.
3. Spider rear calipers, carbo tech pads from Andy @ Performatek
4. Air ducting to front and rear brakes
5. Shankle "sport" rear springs
4. Rear Koni shocks
5. 16x7.5 wheels with 22 mm offset
6. 215/45 tires (Falken Azenis)
7. Summit Racing Brake Bias Adjuster
8. Side dump Exhaust (2.5") with a signal Magnaflow muffler.
9. Milano Verde front sway bar.
10. Custom Home Made air/filter and 3" exhaust tubing intake (for space, and cold air not power).

Thats it! The flat fly's. The last outing Autobahn (October '11) before we crashed out We were among the top 5 fastest cars in the race with over 100 cars starting.

Here are the problems we have encountered:

1. Front Wheel Bearings: We buy new every race I am sure our low-offset (they stick out pretty far) wheels and radical front end alignment do not help here. Not to mention that we drive pretty hard.

2. Brake Rotor Warping and Pad wear. Well....when we had the tired 2.5 in the car and we were racing on tracks with-out a long straight our issues were minimal. Now that the car is 30mph faster at the end of the long straight....the brakes don't work that well and we are using them up quickly.
We are planing/building a custom big brake set-up....$$$$. This should solve the problem....

3. Leaky gas tank...we live in the rust belt... rusty gas tanks!!! We went are on our third and finally coated it internally ...I think we are ok now.

Get the car safe, get it passed tech inspection get it reliable then think about making it faster.

It is a blast.....have fun.

David Alexander
Riverside, IL

87 Martini and Rusty Milano
82 GTV 6 3.0 24 valve
77 Alfetta GT race car project
77. Guilia Nuova Super 2.0

Last edited by Davidsalfa; 01-29-2012 at 04:23 PM. Reason: spelling
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post #24 of 348 (permalink) Old 01-29-2012, 04:51 PM
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As noted earlier in this thread, we also had front wheel bearing problems, initially. I don't think they were repacked right for that race; we went to a regular inspection, replace if needed, and repack before every race and never had a problem with them again. Wes is getting a pile of NIB spare ones, as well as on spindles, because we were gonna be ready if it ever happened to us again!

We ducted the rear brakes first but still ended up with a cooler from Summit plumbed into the fill and drain holes in the transaxle. That was the cheap part, along with the fan. The filter was $60 and the pump to handle the temps was $200. Add in stainless lines and fittings and it wasn't a cheap setup but it did make a difference.

We did go to Spider calipers in the rear and ran Carbotech pads with great success. We also did a vastly expensive fuel cell setup - ATL 15 gallon, in-cell 3-door surge tank, dual pumps - although I wish we had stuck with the factory tank. Ours looked bad outside but once it was out of the car, the inside was fine.

These cars can run up front in these series; we have three 3rd place trophies and were leading a race with less than 2 hours to go when we had an engine blow - overheated because another driver had not been watching the temp gauge. That was our first cooling issue, and not our hottest or hardest run event, so it may have just been the end of that engine.
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post #25 of 348 (permalink) Old 01-29-2012, 08:32 PM
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We had two second place finishes, a fourth and a crash while leading last season so I will second the idea that these cars can win or run up front. And all of this with very lightly breathed on 2.5 liter motor.

Ditto on the front wheel bearings. Get yourself a set of new Timkens or other quality bearings. Do not use the chinese bearings your local auto supply store sells! Replace cones and cups in matched sets. Use a good quality synthetic grease such as redlines or Amsoils.Very important to reset the front bearing adjustment after running a good number of hot laps. They loosen up more than you can imagine and that is a the normal failure mode kickoff. You can run a whole season on a set if you look after them. Iv'e got 4 hard LeMons races on mine. But I always, always grab the front and rear wheels and give them a tug to see if something is beginning to get loose everytime the car is up on a jackstand. I had to do the rears bearings as well. Brian will concur we drive the wheels off the car and it has been good to us.

I also ducted air to the front brakes and the rear as well. Andy's carbotech pads are better than the Porterfields I ran for the first two seasons.

Modify the fuel filler neck by removing the restrictor plate in there. Also make absolutley sure that the filler neck vent line loops up above the filler hose so no fuel can get trapped in it. If it can you will have a hell of a time filling your fuel tank. With a big hose on your 5 gallon can you should be able to put in 5 gallons in about 40 seconds.

Anything you can do to help with engine cooling and cooling system reliability is a great idea. Try not to ever rely on the cars original wiring to take care of anything, take some time and care and do all the critical circuits yourself.

Change all the guibo's as well.

The transaxle gets a lot of heat from the brakes if you can take care of some of that you migfht be OK. In high ambient heat areas on short tracks without good long straights the transaxle can heat soak both from its own heat load and the heat from the brakes soaking in. A winglet on the dedion triangle can scoop up some air and get it to the dead air space the transaxle / brakes live in. But there is a modification I have been doing to the transaxles after having the same trouble s back in 2008 & 2009. The pressed in steel shaft the reverse gear idler spins on will rotate in its bore and come into contact with 5th gear after the transaxle stays above 250 degrees F for a few hours. It will still work and shift but you will hear a zing, zing sound all the time. The mod is to drill a hole in the case through the shaft and pin it in place. If your interested PM me and I can send a couple of pictures. If thistransaxle problem happens to you, then congratulations. You are officially driving the wheels off the car.

But in short. Stuff will break, fix it, improve it and move on.

Greg

1972 Berlina Vintage Racer, 1987 Milano Platinum (LeMons Car), 1982 GTV6 EP Race Car, 1974 GTV Vintage Race Car, 2012 VW GTI stage II, 1966 Corvette Coupe 327-350, 2007 Triumph T100 Bonneville. Dearly departed: 1971 Fiat 124 Spider, 1983 Saab 900 Turbo, 2004 Saab 9-3 Aero, 1995 BMW 540i Sport, 2014 Audi A4 (swamped)

Last edited by GregSef; 01-30-2012 at 05:40 AM. Reason: more info
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post #26 of 348 (permalink) Old 01-30-2012, 09:59 AM
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jsut a thought even motronic is limited by the 'air flap' at 3500- 4000 rpm it is maxed out of travel..you can use LH let off an volvo v6 motor car.. this is a hot wire set up, much better than motronic give me a e-mail i can send you a photo copy of this system vrs motronic. this is from a bosch fi book that i have..

anyone can buy a Porsche, only Drivers drive a Alfa Romeo
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post #27 of 348 (permalink) Old 01-30-2012, 03:46 PM
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Bianchi- I've got the Spica mechanical injection- no worries about Mr Bosch rearing his ugly head!

Armorer- What size are the wheels?

I intend to run 2.5" to 3" hoses from the rear quarter windows to the rear brake calipers.

The car has a warmed over 2.0L with stock radiator and fan, the previous owner installed an oil cooler. I just harvested a set of Milano front brakes and front and rear hubs.
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post #28 of 348 (permalink) Old 01-30-2012, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eman911 View Post
Bianchi- I've got the Spica mechanical injection- no worries about Mr Bosch rearing his ugly head!

Armorer- What size are the wheels?

I intend to run 2.5" to 3" hoses from the rear quarter windows to the rear brake calipers.

The car has a warmed over 2.0L with stock radiator and fan, the previous owner installed an oil cooler. I just harvested a set of Milano front brakes and front and rear hubs.
I'm not sure the Milano front hubs will bolt on to the Alfetta spindles. The Alfettas used a different sized bearing, and we're nt consistent across all the model years. If you have the option, grab the Milano spindles (and castor bars, and pretty much everything else you can grab), and use them as well. Then you can use Milano bearings, which may fare better with 100 fewer lbs on the nose.

bs
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post #29 of 348 (permalink) Old 01-30-2012, 04:13 PM
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Eman, the wheels are stock GTV6 Speedlines so 15x6. We ran 205/50/15 Dunlop Direzzas on them without any issues.
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post #30 of 348 (permalink) Old 01-30-2012, 04:16 PM
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Bshorey- I did!

Armorer- What kind of Dollars/Euros/Lira are we talking?
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