Lemons/Chump problems - Page 11 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #151 of 348 (permalink) Old 07-11-2014, 03:53 PM
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Major construction on the porch is finished, I just have to install the sheet steel roofing. It's Alfa time!

I found the reason for the oil cooling failure, it was ME. I took the system apart, cleaned it all up and found a piece of paper towel wedged in the return line. Stupid.

I should have the motor out Saturday afternoon and start teardown on Monday. I'm sure I'll find even more work inside.

I received my copy of Jim K's book and found plans/instructions for a flow bench. I can't wait to take a die grinder to that pretty lump of aluminum that the great unwashed refer to as a cylinder head.
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post #152 of 348 (permalink) Old 08-15-2014, 05:41 PM
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I did our first chump car race at Lime Rock in July. Here is a short clip of a pretty good lap in Angelina.


Greg

1972 Berlina Vintage Racer, 1987 Milano Platinum (LeMons Car), 1982 GTV6 EP Race Car, 1974 GTV Vintage Race Car, 2012 VW GTI stage II, 1966 Corvette Coupe 327-350, 2007 Triumph T100 Bonneville. Dearly departed: 1971 Fiat 124 Spider, 1983 Saab 900 Turbo, 2004 Saab 9-3 Aero, 1995 BMW 540i Sport, 2014 Audi A4 (swamped)
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post #153 of 348 (permalink) Old 09-20-2014, 07:12 AM
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AHHHH! the sweet, sweet music of an Alfa V6! I really didn't realize what I was missing until I bought a Verde a couple of weeks ago.
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post #154 of 348 (permalink) Old 10-13-2014, 05:56 AM
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Well the latest version of our powerplant passed her sea trials yesterday. We just have a short laundry list of minor maintenance items and we are ready for Road America on Saturday.


Please ignore the death rattle at idle!
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post #155 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-03-2014, 05:58 AM
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We survived (dare I say thrived) our last race of the season! Out of 14 hours of racing we were sidelined for about 30 minutes. Cold and damp kept the speeds low for the first hour or so of both days but quickly improved. The newest iteration of our 2.0l SPICA injected motor pulled like a freight train (we weren't able to get to the dyno prior to the race so I have no hard numbers for you). Engine and chassis improvements clipped 5 seconds from our previous fastest lap at Road America.

Our 2 failures- Throttle cable came undone from the intake end (a first), and the spring on the barometric compensator broke causing us to go dead lean (second time for this particular failure).

We ended up with a mid pack finish both days and were quite happy with the car's performance.
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post #156 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-03-2014, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eman911 View Post
We survived (dare I say thrived) our last race of the season! Out of 14 hours of racing we were sidelined for about 30 minutes. Cold and damp kept the speeds low for the first hour or so of both days but quickly improved. The newest iteration of our 2.0l SPICA injected motor pulled like a freight train (we weren't able to get to the dyno prior to the race so I have no hard numbers for you). Engine and chassis improvements clipped 5 seconds from our previous fastest lap at Road America.

Our 2 failures- Throttle cable came undone from the intake end (a first), and the spring on the barometric compensator broke causing us to go dead lean (second time for this particular failure).

We ended up with a mid pack finish both days and were quite happy with the car's performance.
Awesome: Congrats.

I raced in NH with LeMons last week. Story to follow....

Greg

1972 Berlina Vintage Racer, 1987 Milano Platinum (LeMons Car), 1982 GTV6 EP Race Car, 1974 GTV Vintage Race Car, 2012 VW GTI stage II, 1966 Corvette Coupe 327-350, 2007 Triumph T100 Bonneville. Dearly departed: 1971 Fiat 124 Spider, 1983 Saab 900 Turbo, 2004 Saab 9-3 Aero, 1995 BMW 540i Sport, 2014 Audi A4 (swamped)
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post #157 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-20-2014, 07:58 PM
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We're coming up against the shortage of 14" tire options, so we're looking to upgrade to 15" or 16" wheels for our Milano. Any recommendations beyond finding stock 15" wheels?
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post #158 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-23-2014, 05:35 AM Thread Starter
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Wheels

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Originally Posted by sugarbutch View Post
We're coming up against the shortage of 14" tire options, so we're looking to upgrade to 15" or 16" wheels for our Milano. Any recommendations beyond finding stock 15" wheels?
The problem is for 15" wheels the only tire is a 205/50/15. With our GTV6 we knew we needed more tire than that. The second problem is the 5x98 bolt pattern, not a lot of wheels available with that pattern. We solved this by machining our hubs for ARP wheel studs on a 5x100 pattern. This is a very common pattern. VW/Audi, small Toyota/Lexus and Honda/Acura all use this. First we started with some factory 17" Audi wheels, what freakin boat anchors, wheels weighed almost 29 pounds w/o tires. We've ended up with these wheels as they are easy to get and relatively cheap and weigh in at 20ish pounds. You can really feel that 9 pound difference in the wheels.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/rl...587s/overview/

For tires we run a 215/45/17. We could run the tires for an event and a half but because of our tire deal we put new tires on for every race and sell off the used ones to other teams.

Hope this helps. If you have anymore questions come find me at Sears. We'll be in our usual garage spot.

Wes
Winner 24 Hours of Lemons, Finally
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post #159 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-23-2014, 06:36 AM
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I have a set of speedline 15x7 that we ran on our chump Milano, they are pretty heavy...

EMail me at [email protected] if interested, $200 for set.

The stock GTV6 wheels are very light, but would be hesitant to use for track duty because of the age....The Milano 3.0 wheels are heavy as heck. I would also be careful using aftermarket wheels as we have had several failures in Spec e30 BMW, and a lot of that comes from having to go from 14 to 15's and there were no stock wheels in 15 for that car. you get what you pay for sometimes.

I like the idea of machining the hub for 100mm, there are some good BBS/german made wheels available for that pattern.

Al Taylor
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post #160 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-23-2014, 06:51 AM
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Massive CHump/Lemons Milano team FS

Looking to sell my Milano race cars/parts/parts cars. I have 2 race cars, both would need updating, the roadster I have been using for RallyCross, the sedan had a ton of work done but the engine smokes. I have a platinum streetcar that runs and I was driving until the shift linkage gave up this year, verde complete parts car that runs (140k miles) and the remains of 4 other cars. There are plenty of new parts also...

If interested please contact me at [email protected]

I would take 5k for everything and it would be a massive undertaking to move it all, The sedan race car, verde are located 4 miles from VIR, the roadster and platinum streetcar are at my farm off INterstate 95, exit 150 NC.

THanks

Al Taylor
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post #161 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-23-2014, 07:15 AM
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Wes, how involved is the machining? And what about the hub bore?

Al, we were looking at those Speedlines, so I'll send you a message. Thanks! I wish we were closer to VIR...
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post #162 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-23-2014, 05:57 PM
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My two cents.

I am running 16" rims. I went from 225/50/16's to 205/45/16's. The narrower tire is faster. Why? because it is shorter which helps in acceleration and it weighs significantly less.

Why 16"? because I got a great deal on two sets of TSW rims on eBay. What should I be running? 15" rims. My 16" TSW's have taken incredible abuse over the years of racing, so that's good. but the heavier of the two sets weigh 23 pounds each. That is heavy as heck.. And with my car at a horsepower disadvantage to the big V8 and Turbocharged cars the right place to lose weight is on anything that is rotating mass.

There are good choices in 15" tires, BF Goodrich rivals etc. Also these tires are nice and small in diameter to lower our final drive. And they are far lighter than the bigger sizes.

The small overall diameter also lowers the car which gives another advantage.

Size matters... Small is better.

Greg

1972 Berlina Vintage Racer, 1987 Milano Platinum (LeMons Car), 1982 GTV6 EP Race Car, 1974 GTV Vintage Race Car, 2012 VW GTI stage II, 1966 Corvette Coupe 327-350, 2007 Triumph T100 Bonneville. Dearly departed: 1971 Fiat 124 Spider, 1983 Saab 900 Turbo, 2004 Saab 9-3 Aero, 1995 BMW 540i Sport, 2014 Audi A4 (swamped)
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post #163 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-23-2014, 06:01 PM
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Greg, that has been my thinking when it comes to wheels and tires. Smaller, lighter, shorter final drive. We're really only thinking of switching from the 14s because of concern about tire availability.

Speaking of which, we've been running the Direzza Star II on our Volvo and loving them. They are still available for the 14...
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post #164 of 348 (permalink) Old 11-26-2014, 08:13 PM
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I've been running a Milano ('Alyssa Milano') in Lemons in the Midwest since 2012, and thought I'd share some info/experiences. I apologize in advance for the long post/wall of text.


Current configuration:
Theme: Alyssa Milano, actress (Who's the Boss, Charmed, Mistresses, etc.) But has a line of sports clothing for women, as in, pro team logos on clothes for women, called 'touch'. So, that's the theme, so we put some football stuff on the car, a charity she supports, etc. We also put a sticker on the back that says 'Who's your boss?' Cracks me up...

3.0L V6, (installed July 2012.)
Platinum transaxle with 'enhanced' LSD (installed April 2014)
Rebuilt driveshaft (done before 1st race)
Stock brakes except with Wilwood manual proportioning valve (installed 2010), and vented rear disks (installed April 2014) Using ATE Type200.
Front pads: Carbotech XP10
Rear pads: Carbotech XP8
Stock suspension in front (poly AR bushings installed Oct. 2014)
Stiffer springs in rear, with 'red' Koni shocks (installed April 2014)
Stock fuel system

Original config:
Milano silver,
Stock in every way.

MOTORS!
We spun a bearing in the first motor (2.5L) at Autobahn (IL) in our first race in 2012, about 5 hours in, and it got worse from there. Replacement was a 3.0L out of a 164, that ran good until Oct. of this year, when it slipped a timing belt tooth, and it got worse from there. Rebuild process is underway. Only mod to engine was setting oil pump clearance to min value to get better oil pressure. Just going by dash gauge, it always had plenty of oil pressure at idle, none of the typical ~<10psi nonsense!

This spring, we replaced the old trans that had developed a whine (like a supercharger!) last year. We ran it for a race and a half like that. Anyway, we swapped it for a platinum with an enhanced LSD, along with a vented rear disk kit (with Spider calipers) from Performatek, replaced the original rear bushings with poly stuff, installed stiffer rear springs and koni red shocks. Even the new rear springs help control body roll, though we still have a lot!

Brakes:
We struggled with brake fade/low pedal issues, and by fixing a combination of things seem to have gotten it under control. First was we needed a correct shim between booster rod and brake m/c, and second was getting the air out of the FRONT lines. This spring after swapping the rear brakes, a team member tapped on the front hard loops while we were struggling to get even a mediocre pedal back, and lots of bubbles came out. In the end, the pedal was better than it had ever been.

But, in the process of trying to diagnose the brake fade, we instrumented 1 front pad and 1 rear pad to get temps. Temps in the front were in the 800-850 deg F range, and the rears could go over 900 F, but still within the Carbotech specs for the pads. With the vented rears, the temps sometimes reach 900, but seem to cool down down much faster and usually are the same as the front, if not cooler. This is going by memory. I can look through the data files if someone wants more accurate before and after info.

Brake Ducting:
Early on, I put ducts for the rear brakes in the rear passenger floor, with PVC pipe scoops, thinking we could pull some air in. Eventually I got a airflow meter and at a track day learned there was none! So, we put ducts in the roof in the bleachers we have (there is a football stadium on the roof) which got some airflow. This spring, I got some plexiglass rear side windows from a former Milano rally car, that had ducts, so we're using those now. Haven't noticed a difference in temps. Also, we cut some 'gills' behind the front fender, thinking it would help hot air get out. Haven't noticed a difference in brake temps with that either. I don't know why, but I continue to instrument pads and collect data. We're even investigating infra-red sensors to get rotor temps, using a harbor freight gizmo.

Oil temp(s):
In July, I installed a thermocouple on the 'oil level' probe to measure engine oil temperature, and was quite horrified that it would get to 290 deg F, running Brad Penn 20w-50 (changed every race). For the last race, I installed a 164 oil cooler and switched to Mobil1 15w50. Oil temps were more reasonable, though maybe a touch high at around 250 to 260 deg F. For the last race, we added a thermocouple for trans temp. Being lazy, I didn't modify the drain plug as planned, so I just JB-welded a TC wire to the bottom of the transaxle case. No useful data the first day, as in the cold and wet I couldn't get the wire to stay on. (That data was mildly interesting, in that just dangling there, the air temp would get to 120 deg F at times). We got some interesting data the second day, with temps around 200 deg F. Keep in mind, this was running for about 40 minutes. With a healthier engine, running all day, brakes heatsoaking the transaxle case, I'm sure the oil will get a lot hotter than 200F. We ran Mobil1 trans oil for a while (changed every race), but switched to redline for the new transaxle.

Wheel Bearings:
As like others, we have front bearing issues. We smoked a front wheel bearing in April 2013 on the Sunday. Ever since, we remove and repack/(replace if needed) the front wheel bearings at the end of the first day. It took a few races to track down a clunk in the front suspension, which was apparently the front AR bar bushings. That particular thunk was gone at the last race.

Tufting:
I also tried tufting the car to get an idea of airflow. For the track day I took it to, I forgot my GoPRO, so had a friend take stills as I drove around, which didn't work that well. With a video camera mounted outside the car, it might work to see what is going on. I was thinking there must be a way to duct the rear of the car to pull air out from the rear brake area, and was trying to locate a low pressure zone behind the car. That was the idea, but haven't found the right way, yet.

1986 Alfa Romeo GTV6, aka 'Benito',
1983 Alfa Romeo GTV6, 'aka 'The Red Lemon',
1987 Alfa Romeo Milano/Lemons, aka 'Alyssa Milano'
1987 Alfa Romeo Milano, spare Milano that someday will have a drivetrain put back in.

Last edited by dsb_dsb; 11-26-2014 at 08:37 PM. Reason: add picture
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post #165 of 348 (permalink) Old 12-18-2014, 07:08 AM
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Starting to get antsy, must fight urge to work on race car. Hope I can make it to New Years Day.

Things on the list:

Transaxle repairs X3- we destroyed 3rd gear synchro at our last race, the spare trans I put in the car has a horrible whining noise (input shaft bearing?) and the trans in my DD Milano needs a 2nd gear synchro.

Brakes- time to renew the calipers, flush the hydraulics and new pads all around

Spica Pump- devise a more reliable return mechanism for the baro compensator arm

Watts link- new bushes throughout

Front shocks- need new rules compliant front shocks

Front sway bar- build a new front bar in the hope of keeping the inside rear tire planted

Engine- routine maintenance and dyno testing

Additional pieces of information we picked up on this year:

Fuel pump location- after a fuel pump failure at our first race we relocated the fuel pump to the spare tire well. After that we would only be able to get about 8 of 14 gallons out of the tank before we started having pick up problems. We moved the pump back to the original location (down low) and now can draw 10 gallons before encountering problems. Head pressure matters! Next step, fuel cell.

Oil Temps- when the forecast high is 45 degrees you do not need an oil cooler.
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