Why do I do this to myself? - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 6 (permalink) Old 01-02-2018, 10:36 AM Thread Starter
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Why do I do this to myself?

Had the week between Christmas and New Years off, so thought it would be good to take a couple of days and refresh the transmission in Milo. Hope was to take 3-4 days and refresh the syncros/dogs and update the LSD to 47%. Gathered up all the tools used when building the transaxle in the GTV6 just in case.

The wife bought me some anerobic sealer, and LSD friction plates for Christmas - lovely woman. When I cracked the case open the day after Christmas - uh-oh! Looks like water sat in this trans for a while. The ring gear had heavy pitting on several teeth. Can't just re-use that. Guess the job just got more involved.

Didn't have a good 39-11 to replace with, so the 41-10 will need to go in. Fortunately one of my parts boxes was from a Milano, because the GTV6 version uses a gear drive for the speedo. It took a day to rebuild the syncros and set the pinion depth. Only to realize late that night - lying in bed - that the depth was in MM not thousandths. So it should be set to +0.002 not 0.007. Blah.

Redid the pinion depth then took the rest of the day to set the carrier bearing preload and ring gear backlash. Assembly followed the next day.

"new" isostatic linkage, patch the hole in the rear exhaust pipe where it hit the half shaft, get the center section shoved forward enough to prevent it from happening again. Oh yeah - and repair the clutch hard line that sheared off during removal because of corrosion. And replace the driveshaft carrier bearing. You know - the normal stuff!

2:00 yesterday and it is back together. Go to move it from the garage and only have 2 gears. 3rd and 4th. Lateral bar on the isostatic was damaged during install of the trans. Drop the center exhaust, disconnect the driveshaft and drop the front of the trans for access. Replace the link and all back together. 5:15 PM - glass of wine.

Did I mention that the high on Sunday and Monday was -9F? Garage was OK, but not warm. Oh, and the boy's car decided to have clutch hydraulic issues in the mix.

In the end, it got me to work this morning. Shifter feels wonderful and at -9 again, I was able to engage 2nd. Never could do that when cold before. Need to get used to the noises again - takes a week or so to believe that the job was really done right. Until then pins and needles.

Then need to order up a converter from Dakota Digital to get the speedo reading correctly. Still have a weepy rear caliper on the right, and it will take weeks to get the park brake adjusted again.

There was actually a point in time, when I cracked the case, that I thought about going out and buying a different car. But then I realized that I would probably end up with another Alfa. Or something broken at least.

Here's to a great 2018!
Mark

84 Spider - Long gone, but started the addiction; 85 GTV6 - Current project, Supercharged, Mega Squirt; 88 Verde - "Milo" It has a name, must be a keeper
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post #2 of 6 (permalink) Old 01-02-2018, 02:32 PM
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How did you set the pinion dept?

So Mark

How did you set the pinion dept and all that stuff? Do you have the factory tools? Or did you find a away to do it without them? Either way, expound on this process.

I have a Verde transaxle that I'd like to turn into a 4.10. I also have a non LSD 4.10 transaxle, that can't be used as a transaxle because the back case got damaged in a moving accident(mounting studs for rear brake caliper were smashed off). I want to take the crown & pinion from the 4.10 and put that into the Verde box, while keeping the Verde LSD.

Bye for now
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post #3 of 6 (permalink) Old 01-02-2018, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
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What you describe is basically what I did. This is the second Verde LSD fitted to a 4.10 that I have done.

If you have access to a lathe you can make the tools to set the pinion depth. The dimensional information for the tools is in the service manual, with some additional measurements taken from the bores of the case. That will allow you to build the reference portion. You then need to have a fixture to hold the dial indicator (I used a test indicator since they are smaller) and a piece to set the nominal height (I built this feature into the reference tool). Those can also be built on the lathe.

Tools for setting the preload and backlash is a bit more challenging. I use a modified long side stub axle with a plate bolted to the flange. I turned the hub centering portion off on a lathe so my plate sits flat. The plate has a centrally located square hole to allow the use of a beam type inch pound torque wrench. The inboard end of the axle shaft has two crossed Vs ground into it to engage the axles of the spider gears - this insures that you are turning the whole carrier assembly, not just creating differential motion between the two output gears. This is used to measure the running torque of the carrier preload.

Once those two items are set, I use the tool above to set the backlash by dial indicator on the end of the plate. I need to do some proportional calculations since my plates are not as long as what is described in the service manual. It works, but in the end I also apply some "feel" to this setting. You should just be able to feel a slight clearance between the pinion and ring gear. This measurement is difficult to do accurately with my crude tools. Probably could stand some improvement there.

You will want to tear down the donor transaxle and get a bunch of shims for the pinion stack and carrier bearings before you start. I ended up at the local heavy truck / ag parts counter for those. You will need a good dial or electronic caliper to measure the thickness.

Another tool that is helpful is a home built deep socket to remove the nut off the input shaft stack. Cut an impact socket in two and weld a tube in the middle. Makes removing and torqueing much easier.

This is not a tough job, but it does require patience and good measurements for success.

Also note - there are several varieties of transaxles and not all parts interchange easily. GTV6 units have the gear drive speedometer, and Milano have the electronic pick up. those features are part of the pinion shaft, so unless you want to do some wild machine work you need the right part to start. Also the bearing sets internally have variances. The pinion bearing on the transmissions I used was different one to the other. They can be swapped, but that is an added step.

Good luck!

Mark
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84 Spider - Long gone, but started the addiction; 85 GTV6 - Current project, Supercharged, Mega Squirt; 88 Verde - "Milo" It has a name, must be a keeper
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post #4 of 6 (permalink) Old 01-05-2018, 08:15 AM
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Send a message via AIM to DOM!
Why do I do this to myself?

Good for you for doing it in this weather. All I have to do is clean the engine bay in the milano prior to putting the motor in and I have found a million excuses so far..


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DOM! 1987 Milano Verde 1983 GTV6
2017 VW GTI SE 2003 Ducati 999 1992 BMW K1100RS
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post #5 of 6 (permalink) Old 01-05-2018, 08:32 AM
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you may want to consider this instead of dealing with the milano sender to speedo blah blah. Much easier and more accurate. Don't ask me how I know
GPS Speed/ Compass Sender/ BIM
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post #6 of 6 (permalink) Old 01-05-2018, 09:19 AM Thread Starter
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The GPS enabled unit looks nice. Definitely would pursue that if the remainder of the system had an issue. Would eliminate any concerns with a bad sendor, or the non-available 86 GTV6 senders. I'll probably go with the lower cost SGI-5 since all I need to do is convert the signal.

84 Spider - Long gone, but started the addiction; 85 GTV6 - Current project, Supercharged, Mega Squirt; 88 Verde - "Milo" It has a name, must be a keeper
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