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-   -   Tipo 33 Engine (https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/limited-production-1960-1977/439593-tipo-33-engine.html)

2000 touring sp 08-16-2015 02:10 AM

Tipo 33 Engine
 
2 Attachment(s)
hello to you all.
I have been looking at the tipo 33 stradale lately.
I have some question, as I hope someone will answer.
On pictures of engine compartments on 33 Stradale. One can see 4 ignition coils on some and 2 ignition coils on others.
Whey did they use this different configuration????
In the tipo 33 book by Peter Collins & Ed McDonough. There is a reference to a V8 engine produced in the mid fifties.
I have searched to find references to this engine in my other books and magazines. Unfortunately I am not able to find any references to this engine in other places.
Does anyone have have knowledge or other information or reference's on this engine?????

Alistair Muir 08-16-2015 03:27 AM

1 Attachment(s)
The T33 S had four coils for 16 spark plugs. Only 18 hand made over 16 months. I can only figure that four coils was to make up for reduced charge time experienced at 10,000 rpm. This article says no two cars where the same...

The T33 S Was A Road-Borne Racer | Petrolicious

..

2000 touring sp 08-16-2015 03:42 AM

my impression was That all the type 33/2 incl Stradale hat twin spark ignition .
Isn't that correct

richards 08-16-2015 03:58 AM

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Hi

I am not so sure this is a complicated question or answer!

Tipo 33 engines have twin plug heads a la gta, so it is entirely feasible to run each bank with either twin or single coil depending on distributor - talking V8s here.

Attached foto of single coil per bank V8 dizzy; most common, I believe. As far as I am concerned there is enough complication on this engine without adding more!

Richard

Alistair Muir 08-16-2015 04:08 AM

The engines started of in the Tipo 33 race cars

try here.

https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=...totype&f=false

Alistair Muir 08-16-2015 04:15 AM

Could be so they could last longer endurance racing without issues.. Or is it a racing coil set up to spark two cylinders at the same time. "wasted spark principal" One coil fired two cylinders, one on compression stroke and one on exhaust stroke. The compression stroke with fuel has better ionizing and pulled most of the power to its spark.

2000 touring sp 08-16-2015 04:39 AM

2 Attachment(s)
I am sorry Richard, but I totally disagree with you attitude.
quote "As far as I am concerned there is enough complication on this engine without adding more! "
If we take that attitude , you express. We certainly will not be any wiser, ever.

Alister Muir. I think I am reasonably aware of the history of the Alfa 33 Stradale. And ,i think, have read what is available on the net. Without coming closer to an answer to my question. But maybe I have some "holes" regarding the race cars.
But my question concern the tipo 33 Stradale.
My 2 cents regarding the ignition coils. was that it could be related to the different performance . The tipo 33 Stradale. the customers had different wishes about the performance of the engine. from 230hp ( Standard??) and up to 290hp should have been delivered.

Regarding the prototype engines from the 50es. Did Alfa Romeo produced those as an engine for the new upper Alfa. And did they scrap the V8 engine. Only to concentration on the 6 cyl 2600 engine.

But my questions could maybe been placed in the wrong forum. But my exasperation was that it was in here the knowledge of the V8 was representative.

Sorry I am just quires about the history of development.

Alistair Muir 08-16-2015 05:31 AM

Sorry see my edit to post above..... Note they flamed out of exhausts at low revving....

Alistair Muir 08-16-2015 05:48 AM

Carlo Chiti was asked to design a 2.0l race engine in 1966 as you probably know. But what engine was the base ??

Alfa's GP Engines / Designers

1924: Alfa Romeo Tipo P2 - 2.0 L8 - Vittorio Jano (CD)
1932: Alfa Romeo Tipo B - 2.7-3.8 L8 - Vittorio Jano (CD)
1935: Alfa Romeo Tipo 8C-35 - 3.8 L8 - Vittorio Jano (CD)
1935: Alfa Romeo Bi-motore - 5.8 V16 - Vittorio Jano (CD)
1936: Alfa Romeo Tipo 12C-36 - 4.1 V12 - Vittorio Jano (CD)
1937: Alfa Romeo Tipo 12C-37 - 4.5 V12 - Vittorio Jano (CD)
1938: Alfa Romeo 308 - 3.0 L8 - Vittorio Jano (CD)
1938: Alfa Romeo 312 - 3.0 V12 - Vittorio Jano (CD)
1938: Alfa Romeo 316 - 3.0 V16 - Vittorio Jano (CD)
1938: Alfa Romeo 158 - 1.5 L8 - Gioacchino Colombo (CD)
1950: Alfa Romeo 159 - 1.5 L8 - Gioacchino Colombo (CD)
1957: Alfa Romeo “Giulietta” - 1.5 L4 - Rudolf Hruska (CD)
1967: Alfa Romeo T33 - 2.0 - 3.0 V8 - Carlo Chiti (TD)
1976: Alfa Romeo 115-12 - 3.0 B12 - Carlo Chiti (TD)
1979: Alfa Romeo 1260 - 3.0 V12 - Carlo Chiti (TD)
1982: Alfa Romeo 890T - 1.5 V8T - Carlo Chiti (TD)

2000 touring sp 08-16-2015 06:06 AM

Thanks Alister Muir.
I am fully aware of the engines produced by Alfa Romeo.
But I think you have missed a couple of engine construction.
Among them type 160 from 1953 I think. You can probaly find some infos in this tread. http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfa...ipo-160-a.html
And then there was a V 6 cyl produced mid 70 ties.
And if you have read the scans I put in in post one. The V8 on witch I have raised my question. Could be a derivative of the tipo160, as the authors almost indicate.

Alleggerita 08-16-2015 06:44 AM

Does it have to do with the distributor specified?

The cars with 4 coils all seem to have a Bosch type? distributor, whereas the Marelli ones seem to have 2 coils.

Is it only these pictures or are there Marelli cars with 4 coils?

richards 08-16-2015 06:55 AM

"I am sorry Richard, but I totally disagree with you attitude.
quote "As far as I am concerned there is enough complication on this engine without adding more! "
If we take that attitude , you express. We certainly will not be any wiser, ever."

Oh dear; can`t please all of people all of the time!

I was under the impression you wanted an answer to the question "Whey did they use this different configuration????" and as on owner of a tipo33 2l V8 2 coil/point setup I just offered my opinion.

Richard

2000 touring sp 08-16-2015 07:09 AM

Thanks Alleggrieta.
That could be the answer on the double ignition coils. It sounds logical
I do have 2 pictures with double coils. And both is the Bosch distributor.
The other pictures I have of the engine. Is with single coils, and magneti distributor.
But I dint have the vin numbers of the cars. So I can be pictures from the same 2 cars.

Alistair Muir 08-16-2015 07:16 AM

That was there GP race engines only...

Found it... It was based on the 1500 V8 ATS F1 engine Chiti had worked with... Valve angles, ports, chamber design and lower end dimensions the same. But it's noted that his bore and stroke dimensions are the same as Abarths Tipo 239 V8 !!

2000 touring sp 08-16-2015 07:37 AM

Alistair Muir.
I have the deepest admiration on members that search, in the hope,to come up with the right answers.
But, you will not find any answers by searching the internet. that will satisfies any participants in the forum of tipo 33
The V8 was started in the Alfa Romeo construction department back in 1964.It was not 1966 and it was not by Carlo Chiti as you stated.
The Alfa Romeo V8 has nothing to do with the ATS or the Abarth engine.
So please be aware that you don't bring statements that isn't right. It is not to the benefit for anyone.


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