Tipo 33 Engine - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #16 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-16-2015, 08:09 AM
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The facts are from a book dedicated to Carlo Chiti and Autodelta who Alfa Romeo employed for race and development..... Who am I to doubt their time with him and staff at Autodelta

Anyway I'm out.. It's from the very book your reading !!!

P.S Busso was more responsible for the chassis suspension and Chiti the engine and it's relationship in the chassis. He was passed over when it came to credit.. Yes Busso made V8 for a never produced car in the 50's and there were other V8's in late 1939-1940.. ATS factory made the aluminium castings for the first T33 V8 !! The first one was 1600cc before the 2000cc was agreed on. This engine was later developed up to 3000cc

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post #17 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-17-2015, 04:47 AM
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For other BB members....Some clarity on the origins of the engine that remained with the T33 race car and onto the 33-S. The book we are reading does reference that there are differing views and the frustration that Alfa Romeo and Autodelta did not keep good records.

IMO - Chiti was originally trained as an aircraft engineer and could explain the use of four coils as many aero engines had two ignition systems in tandem for safety (reliability)
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post #18 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-17-2015, 02:51 PM
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'My co-author Peter Collins and I actually saw the Fifties prototype V8 engine sitting on a shelf in a Milan garage run by an ex Autodelta mechanic'.

Carlo Chiti: An Appreciation in English and Italian

read past the italian translation down to the comments by Peter Collins....

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post #19 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-18-2015, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by 2000 touring sp View Post
hello to you all.
I have been looking at the tipo 33 stradale lately.
I have some question, as I hope someone will answer.
On pictures of engine compartments on 33 Stradale. One can see 4 ignition coils on some and 2 ignition coils on others.
Whey did they use this different configuration????
In the tipo 33 book by Peter Collins & Ed McDonough. There is a reference to a V8 engine produced in the mid fifties.
I have searched to find references to this engine in my other books and magazines. Unfortunately I am not able to find any references to this engine in other places.
Does anyone have have knowledge or other information or reference's on this engine?????
Instead of focusing on the coils I would focus on distributors (1 or 2).

I think the first engine shown in the book is single plug and therefore has only one distributor on one bank. The twin plug engines have two distributors, and four coils.
I have seen only two photos of this single plug engine, which must have been in the early days, before the twin plug arrived.
Maybe I am wrong but I was surprised to see this engine with single plug pr cylinder! So this could be the explanation!

With regards to ancestry of this engine I have also read that Alfa Romeo engineering Department constructed the engine and gave it to Chiti/ Autodelta to develop it further to full race spec.

G.
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post #20 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-18-2015, 11:30 AM
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Interesting info on the single plug engine. Does not answer the question though ...

The pictures earlier in the thread have two Marelli twin-plug distributors - 8 leads each with two coils (look like Marelli).

The other distributors look like Bosch - two of them. They also have 8 leads and they use four coils.

The usual set-up for a Marelli twin-plug distributor would be 2 coils for 8 leads which should make a total of 4 as is the case for the Bosch type ....

FWIW, it appears that the Marelli distributor caps only have one coil lead rather than two, probably suggesting an electronic ignition set-up ... Marelli Dinoplex ... that probably used one coil per bank rather than two?

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Instead of focusing on the coils I would focus on distributors (1 or 2).

I think the first engine shown in the book is single plug and therefore has only one distributor on one bank. The twin plug engines have two distributors, and four coils.
I have seen only two photos of this single plug engine, which must have been in the early days, before the twin plug arrived.
Maybe I am wrong but I was surprised to see this engine with single plug pr cylinder! So this could be the explanation!

With regards to ancestry of this engine I have also read that Alfa Romeo engineering Department constructed the engine and gave it to Chiti/ Autodelta to develop it further to full race spec.

G.

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post #21 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-18-2015, 11:51 AM
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Dinoplex - one coil per distributor - likely two ignitions in the car

http://www.dinoplex.org/PDF/Dinoplex...it_Diagram.pdf

and here:

http://www.dinoplex.org/#Dinoplex_AEC102

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post #22 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-18-2015, 03:15 PM
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By passing one coil diagram...on AlfaBB under Montreal.


Can I add another suggestion ..the higher compression had the piston top almost split the combustion chamber in two and stopped flame front freely getting to other side. Two plugs per cylinder would solve this as others had done...
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post #23 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-18-2015, 03:16 PM
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Well, without me knowing, try this theory

These old distributors had 2 fingered rotors, each finger igniting 4 cylinders. On the one distributor version with single plug, one finger of the rotor ignited one bank of the engine while the other finger ignited the other bank. On the twin spark version with two distributors the one side distributor took care of the 8 plugs on one side and the distributor on the other side took care of the 8 plugs on the other side.

So the Stradale with one distributor/2 coils could have the old engine with single plugs, while the other with 4 coils could have two distributors and the newer twin spark engine.

Referring to the Fusi book on all Alfa cars:

Only the 33/3 had the Dinoplex, this is a later Tipo 33 Version with 3L 32Valve and single plug arrangement.

The 33/2 Sport prototype and 33/2 Stradale twin spark is specified like this:

With battery, 2 rotor fingers(2 spinterogeni), 4 coils and 2 plugs(10mm) pr. cylinder.

Hope this helps somewhat, if I am wrong, well sorry

G.

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post #24 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-18-2015, 03:23 PM
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Montreal I believe is a Bosch electronic ignition - not Dinoplex - with Marelli distributor and GTA type cap - two coil leads. I suspect that the Bosch distributor 33's with 4 coils have a Bosch ignition box - anybody know?

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By passing one coil diagram...on AlfaBB under Montreal.


Can I add another suggestion ..the higher compression had the piston top almost split the combustion chamber in two and stopped flame front freely getting to other side. Two plugs per cylinder would solve this as others had done...
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post #25 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-18-2015, 03:31 PM
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Tipo 100 early 1500 ATS (company Chiti cofounded) F1 engines that Chiti designed/worked on after leaving ferrari. Twin distributors

Looks closer to the future Tipo 33 and 33 Stradale than anything I've seen so far..

http://www.ats-autosport.com/heritage_f1.php

..
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post #26 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-18-2015, 05:44 PM
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I see it that to get to the design of the Alfa 33 Stradale engine and twin Distributor/Plugs you need to follow Carlo Chiti's engine development time lines, the Ferrari late 1950's F1 engines development he did until he left and started ATS and was employed to do Alfa Romeo race development (Alfa state owned..Funny to think he had to go to Rome and justify what he was doing).....

Below is the 1963 F1 entered T100 1.5l twin distributor/plug ignition setup..
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post #27 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-19-2015, 12:36 AM
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Alistair Muir,
Correction to engine list: Both the 158/159's were NOT v8's, but straight 8's.
Pete

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156 Series 1 v6 ... and remember it's all just opinions
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post #28 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-19-2015, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
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Alistair Muir,
Correction to engine list: Both the 158/159's were NOT v8's, but straight 8's.
Pete
Ok Thanks.. Corrected them...

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post #29 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-19-2015, 01:29 AM Thread Starter
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here is a picture . The cap has a clearly Bosch logo
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post #30 of 64 (permalink) Old 08-19-2015, 03:17 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you for the serious information.
But in my opinion had all the 33 stradale twin spark plugs head. Don't know if it is correct.
the Floron Spider was running the first race with one plug head. Picture attach
The only 33 stradale, to my knowledge, the replica from mid 70 ties, had a single plug head. Picture attasch
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