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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-01-2011, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
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New Zagato TZ3

Came across this recent article on a new Zagato TZ3

Zagato to build Viper-based Alfa Romeo TZ3 Stradale — Autoblog

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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-02-2011, 12:38 AM
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Saw this news on the alfabb homepage also

Quote:
Originally Posted by alfabecker View Post
Came across this recent article on a new Zagato TZ3

Zagato to build Viper-based Alfa Romeo TZ3 Stradale — Autoblog
Hello Chris,

Interesting news which was published on the alfabb homepage also! But have a look at the source of the information ..........

Ciao, Olaf

Olaf Roeten a.k.a. Zagato_Olaf, Bussum, The Netherlands
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-02-2011, 07:49 AM
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It's no hoax.


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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-03-2011, 12:21 AM
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it is official (looks like it being official) but I it gives me the shivers.

A VIPER as basis for a Zagato TZ3?

Zagato is /was famous for her small, beautyfull and light cars.

Can that be acheived with a VIPER as basis?

Take for e.g. a look at the "new" Lancia Thema; based on a Chrysler 3000c . That is not a Lancia it is a tank!

we have to wait and hopefully Zagato can make it work in respect of her heritage.
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-04-2011, 02:44 AM
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Well, the basis had, of course, to come from within the larger Fiat group and bespoke coachbuilding is a costly affair nowadays.

Let's assume that the whole car would cost around half a million US$.

Who would pay that for a car with the (FWD) underpinnings of a MiTo with the performance to match from it's 1.4 liter turbo engine?

What choices are there with 400+HP to give it the performance to match its looks?

What choices are there with RWD so you can put those 400+HP to the road?

What choices are there so that it doesn't cannibalize the original make of the engine?

What choices are there that keep the development cost within limits?

Not that many I fear...

I still think they could have chosen far worse.


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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-04-2011, 03:52 AM
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April 1st. joke! Have a look at the date of article!

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-04-2011, 04:02 AM
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It's April 4


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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-05-2011, 02:25 AM
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There is major error in the article about the TZ-3 Corsa on the main page of the AlfaBB...

Quote:
There’s a catch, though: instead of riding on 8C Competizione platform like the existing car
The one-off TZ-3 Corsa has received a Gillet Vertigo chassis which was shortened by 40cm to make it fit.
The engine is a Maserati... not an 8C...
It's less of an Alfa than we like to think...


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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-05-2011, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Zaagmans View Post
There is major error in the article about the TZ-3 Corsa on the main page of the AlfaBB...


The one-off TZ-3 Corsa is received a Gillet Vertigo chassis which was shortened by 40cm to make it fit.
The engine is a Maserati... not an 8C...
It's less of an Alfa than we like to think...
I still would still prefer an Alfa/Maserati/Ferrari engine than a Dodge/Chrysler/Whatever unit.

Looking at how FIAT are killing the Lancia brand makes me wonder what sort of people are making these decisions. Would be better off to sell the brand that decimate it. Did they not learn from Mercedes or did that merger pass them by?

On a broader note, it seems that every time Alfa or Lancia come up with a potential killer concept car (new Fulvia, Alfa Diva, TZ3 - yes I know some of these are Zagato. Elasis, Sbarro not Alfa, etc) they find a way to delay, ignore or destroy it instead of being a bit more Porsche-like and developing a Cayman-level or even 911 competitor - they need a bit of the ES30 project type mentality IMHO

Last edited by arguti; 04-05-2011 at 04:33 AM.
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-05-2011, 07:13 PM
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I agree totally. I think these folks have their heads a bit too far up in the clouds.

It would be great to see them trying to go head to head with the newer Porsches - bring them a bit closer to us terrestrials who do not have access to inherited oil fields (nothing against those folks who do have such access).

You can actually push the limits of these cars on the street which is something I doubt you could do with an 8C or a Viper. Push those cars in public and you'd wind up behind bars ;^)

I've been following FIAT carefully, watching their US marketing. It's pretty sad, abortive, uncoordinated. Speaking as someone in the industry who knows how to connect with the US audience, I would say they have some bad council. I doubt that Alfa will fare any better. They'll probably inherit some agency from Chrysler or GM

The US market is dying for a small, loud, nimble, beautiful and accessible sports coupe. There's nothing out there right now beyond a handful of Japanese offerings. I really think it's a big gap. If Alfa can get that 4C out there and get the word out it might just do the trick!

Speaking as a Jr. Z owner I'd love to see a small displacement new production Alfa Zagato. I would actually buy that, assuming that it didn't have a Miata engine

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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-06-2011, 01:15 AM
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Well, a Viper engine is as much "Alfa" as a Ferrari engine is "Alfa"... They only argument one could use is that it should be an Italian engine.

But... I don't know if I'm so happy seeing Opel (GM) engines in a Brera... or a diesel engine in a GT... OK, both are out of production now but these cars formed a large portion of the production over the last years.

Let's not forget that the biggest complaint from within Alfa is that Fiat has minimized every budget there is and that the current range consists of a mere 2 (!) models... Will there be budget to develop a screamer? The 4C could fill that void...

We also had a nice discussion about what was the real cut-off date for when Alfa's stopped being real Alfa's... Personally I still believe that it is either the day that they stopped the production of the last RWD model (not counting the 8C) or the day that they stopped producing a real Alfa engine (the Busso V6). Within Alfa the sentiment is that it is the day that they (Fiat) closed the Centro Stile.


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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-06-2011, 11:23 PM
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@ Zaagmans

Alfa stopped being Alfa Romeo;

please add;

closure of the Milano factory


(word says that the Museo will be closed also by FIAT management).

present cars; 1959 Giulietta Spider Veloce (resto object); 1973 Berlina 2000 - BMW 550i E60 ; had; 1973 JZ 1600; 1998 156 2.0 TS; 1990 75TS (2 x) 166 V63.2
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-08-2011, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZ_jr View Post
@ Zaagmans

Alfa stopped being Alfa Romeo;

please add;

closure of the Milano factory


(word says that the Museo will be closed also by FIAT management).
The only part of Alfa remaining is the museum and that was recently closed indefinately. Alfa is now just an empty shell. Hold on to your real Alfas! I think VW is the only hope Alfa has. Fiat has proven himself to be the wrong parent company for 25 years. I would never buy a Chrysler with Alfa badge (Or a Fiat with Alfa badge).

"73 Montreal;85 GTV6, 71 GTV 1750, 67 Giulia Super, "03" M3; "71 Volvo 1800E (Gone but not forgotten); 1966 Giulia Sprint GT; 2006 Mini Cooper GP
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-28-2011, 01:02 AM
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It's official...
Quote:
The “TZ3 program” managed by Zagato to celebrate the 100th Anniversary of Alfa Romeo
(1910-2010) ends with the delivery of the TZ3 Stradale.
The initiative started in 2009 with the manufacturing of the “one off” TZ3 Corsa which won the
Villa D’Este Design Concept Award in 2010 and followed with nine (9) TZ3 Stradale.
Two different approaches for the same tribute.
The TZ3 Corsa is a track car. It is not a design exercise. It is a Neo-Classic car.
The TZ3 Stradale is a Design Exercise. It is not a race car. It is an Avant-garde car.
The TZ3 Corsa is a tribute to the Alfa Romeo and Zagato racing heritage. It is a one off.
The TZ3 Stradale is a tribute to the Alfa Romeo and Zagato street legal heritage. Just 9 examples
in the world.
In total 10 collectible cars for the 100th anniversary of Alfa Romeo made by its most prolific
contributor, both with race and road legal bodies.
The TZ3 Corsa celebrates men and machines of the Alfa Romeo Zagato racing heritage:
• Scuderia Ferrari (20s and 30s)
• Alfa Corse (40s and 50s)
• Autodelta (60s and 70s)
• Scuderia Zagato (80s and 90s)
The TZ3 Stradale celebrates the road legal heritage of Alfa Romeo Zagato coupés:
• RLSS, 1500, 1750, 2300 and 2900 Zagato (20s and 30s)
• 6C 2500 Panoramica, 1900 SSZ and the Giulietta SVZ (40s and 50s)
• SZ, 2600 SZ, Giulia TZ and Junior Z (60s and 70s)
• S.Z. and R.Z. (80s and 90s)
The TZ3 Corsa is based on a mono shell carbon fibre chassis, coupled with a tubular frame and
a handbeaten lightweight aluminium body. It’s equipped with a front-central V8 90° 4.2 litres
engine and 6-speed sequential gearbox.
The TZ3 Stradale is based on the Viper ACR mechanical chassis with a carbon fibre body.
“Bellezza necessaria” is the inspiration of this car which matches for the first time an USA power
train and can represent the first American Alfa Romeo.
Following Zagato’s gentlemen-driver heritage, TZ3 Corsa has been commissioned by the Alfa
Romeo Zagato collector Martin Kapp. The first TZ3 Stradale has been delivered to the US Alfa
Romeo and Zagato collector (and Saratoga Automobile Museum’s board member) Eric King. The
TZ3 Stradale n°2 and n°3 will be delivered in Japan and Europe.
Both TZ3 Corsa and TZ3 Stradale boast a typical Kamm-tail (K-tail) layout. This solution became famous in Italy with the “Coda Tronca” bodies which were tested by Zagato in the beginning of the 60s. They reached their apex on the Alfa Romeo TZ and TZ2.
Kamm Effect is part of the functional design approach that aims to the aerodynamic efficiency. According to this, the CX can be lowered by keeping compact volumes at the same time. The reduction of the wind resistance is assured with the Kamm Tail design, without any need of a very stretched “drop” shape of the tail.




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Last edited by Zaagmans; 04-28-2011 at 10:07 AM.
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 04-28-2011, 06:10 AM
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