TZ 750084 at Shannonville, ON, Canada - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-19-2010, 01:18 PM Thread Starter
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TZ 750084 at Shannonville, ON, Canada

Hi all,

Attached is a pic of Richard Stafferton on #84 at Shannonville, ON, Canada. The Licence Plate is 41473TE. I have one other picture of this TZ somewhere.

Sorry can not date the pic at this time. And sorry the scanned print has seen better days having hung in my office for decades.

Regards

Ken
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-20-2010, 04:55 AM
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Thanks for that interesting picture that shows that already then 084 had that strange, peculiar bulged roof line, unlike a certain silver "084" to be found as illustration for this chassis number.
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-20-2010, 08:02 PM
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I second that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtv2000 View Post
Thanks for that interesting picture that shows that already then 084 had that strange, peculiar bulged roof line, unlike a certain silver "084" to be found as illustration for this chassis number.
Hello Ken & GTV2000,

Wauw, great to see this. I am curious as to how this car acquired the bulged roof line! Does anybody have a clue?

Ciao, Olaf

Olaf Roeten a.k.a. Zagato_Olaf, Bussum, The Netherlands
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-20-2010, 10:50 PM
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Establish height of previous owners!

Richard
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-21-2010, 06:54 PM
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Tz 750084

Ken, Has anyone asked Richard's widow? Frank
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-21-2010, 10:48 PM
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Ken, all,

As Frank suggested contacting previous owner`s widow is a very sensible next step however my comment about previous owner`s height was not in jest.

From experience anyone over average height say 511/6 feet with helmet can barely operate in a TZ cabin. Even a semi reclining race seat does not offer that much more space.

I didn`t know Richard Stafferton but he looks a quite a large fellow from the foto so it wouldn`t surprise me that the roof was heightened to accommodate a tall driver.

Many TZ`s had their bonnet hump increased in size to accept the high capacity radiator why not roofline - as various SVZs?

Ken, it would be really helpful if you could put an approximate to the foto, if `decades on the wall` I am guessing late 70s?

Richard
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-22-2010, 05:28 AM
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Tz 750084

Richard was about 6 feet tall and of medium build around 175 lbs ..I'm six feet and have been in a few TZ's and I clear the roof with a helmet. Frank
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-22-2010, 07:16 PM
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I think I have a bunch of pictures of the car. I used to race back in the day with Richard. I will dig them out and post some.

cheers
Mark

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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-22-2010, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtv2000 View Post
Thanks for that interesting picture that shows that already then 084 had that strange, peculiar bulged roof line, unlike a certain silver "084" to be found as illustration for this chassis number.
Maybe this was a modification the current owners did not want and thus returned it to original? ... maybe?

I doubt very much if it left the factory with this strange roof line ... ?
Pete

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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-23-2010, 12:23 PM
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Back to the original

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Originally Posted by PSk View Post
Maybe this was a modification the current owners did not want and thus returned it to original? ... maybe?

I doubt very much if it left the factory with this strange roof line ... ?
Pete
Hello PSk,

As far as I know, the red car still had the high roof when it was auctioned in 2006 in Paris. Have a look at the pictures (courtesy of MMC, Paris, France at the website www.mmc-paris.com. Additional info can be found at http://forums.autosport.com/index.ph...tafferton&st=0 where TZ-1 #750084 was discussed.

The history of this red car is:
- France, SOFAR, France (according to Marcello Minerbi)

- Italy (?), Benucci (Maria)
- Italy (?), di Matteo (Michele)
- Italy (?), Paolucci (Anna Maria)
- Italy (?), Palma (Antonio), 1977?

- Holland, Rudy Pas
- Canada (?), Peter Magnussen, Falls Village, ? - 1978
- Canada, Richard Stafferton, Toronto, 1978 - 1985, a picture of the red car with Ontario plate ZAG 084
- UK, Peter Crutch, United Kingdom, 1985 - 1992?
- Auctioned while restoration needed completion, 1992 (according to Jack Habits/www.zagato-cars.com)
- USA, Gary Hanes, Murphy (according to Jack Habits/www.zagato-cars.com)
- Holland, Marcel Roks Consultants, 1998, a picture of the red car with the date 04-09-1998

- Belgium, 2002, pictures of the silver car

- France, Le Mans Classic 2004, pictures of the red car
- France, Paris, MMC, 2006, pictures of the red car and a reference to the Le Mans Classic in 2004


The silver car is a different car with the same chassisnumber. It 'popped' up in Belgium in 2002. I know of a picture (as already mentioned by GTV2000) but can't publish it without risking a lawsuit (if you know what I mean ......).

Ciao, Olaf
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Olaf Roeten a.k.a. Zagato_Olaf, Bussum, The Netherlands

Last edited by Zagato_Olaf; 02-24-2010 at 09:11 AM. Reason: Additional info and reference
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-23-2010, 07:03 PM
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Richard raced the TZ as purchased from Rudy Pas. No mods nor restoration work were done under his ownership, just mechanical maintenance. Under his ownership it always had a small ding above the right side of the grill, a small crease at the left end of the grill, and the grill itself was a piece of sheetmetal.

I have some photos of the car taken during the ARCC 1980 convention; on some photos the car carries the Ontario "ZAG084" plate, on some others it shows the italian tag. By then the car had a side exhaust under the driver's door, not present on Ken's photo. My memories of the car (which begin in 1980) say "loud", my guess is that Ken's photo was taken before the 1980 event and the side exhaust was installed after the photo but before 1980.

I would not bother his widow about this, I don't think she knew Richard when he owned the TZ. More likely, his old friends John Winter and Oliver Collins probably know a thing or two about this TZ as they both owned and raced SZs at the same time.
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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-23-2010, 10:43 PM
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Thank you Olaf for posting #84 history because I had completely forgotten that this is the ex-Peter Crutch TZ. I do not recall the high roof line when I saw it in the `90`s.

I have a photo during Peter`s ownership and will post this weekend.

Not wishing to spoil the fun but do we have `conclusive` proof that #84 had a high roof? I only ask this because high angle/air shots do seem to exaggerate the roof line and we have had no first hand visual confirmation.....but please shoot me down!

Richard
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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-24-2010, 02:05 AM
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High roof

Hello Richard,

Building on the knowledge of Yvesmontreal (thank you Yves!) and the picture of the car at Shannonville as published by Ken, I would conclude that the car already had it's high roof when raced at Shannonville. So we are talking about a timeframe between 1978 and 1980. When the car got this high roof, I wouldn't know, but is was before 1978 in my opinion.
The high roof is clearly visible on pictures from behind the car. Other TZ's have a roof that is slightly flat in the middle. #750084's roof seems to be more round in the middle. The curve of the rear windshield is also different and more round.
Have a look at the pictures. The picture from TZ #750084 was taken before the auction in 2006. The other TZ is the real chassisnumber #750087 owned by Jeroen Pas. That picture was taken by myself during the Spettacolo Sportivo in August of 2008.
The third picture is TZ-1 #750020 and was shot approx. 1988 when owned by Anthony Mak van Waay. Yep, that's me pushing the car. Do you see the flat roofline in the middle? Compare that with the roofline of TZ-1 #750084 at Shannonville.

Ciao, Olaf
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Olaf Roeten a.k.a. Zagato_Olaf, Bussum, The Netherlands

Last edited by Zagato_Olaf; 02-24-2010 at 09:33 AM. Reason: spelling and additional info
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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-24-2010, 04:05 AM
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High roof when in England

Quote:
Originally Posted by richards View Post
Thank you Olaf for posting #84 history because I had completely forgotten that this is the ex-Peter Crutch TZ. I do not recall the high roof line when I saw it in the `90`s.

I have a photo during Peter`s ownership and will post this weekend.

Not wishing to spoil the fun but do we have `conclusive` proof that #84 had a high roof? I only ask this because high angle/air shots do seem to exaggerate the roof line and we have had no first hand visual confirmation.....but please shoot me down!

Richard
Hello Richard,

Have a look in the book 'Alfa Romeo Legends' by David Sparrow & John Tipler published by Osprey Automotive in 1992. It shows TZ-1 #750084 with the high roof on the pages 76 and 77 while it was part of the 'Scuderia Britalia'.

Ciao, Olaf

Olaf Roeten a.k.a. Zagato_Olaf, Bussum, The Netherlands

Last edited by Zagato_Olaf; 02-24-2010 at 04:07 AM. Reason: spelling
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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 02-24-2010, 04:32 AM
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Hi Olaf

You beat me to it -- that was the book/picture I referred to! Certainly that TZ - as posted before - belonged to Peter Crutch. If you look further a picture of the Ghia 1900 shows a Beagle being walked - that was my dog - as I was at the picture shoot.

Thus as you post, the sequence seems to predate Richard`s ownership 1978? and extended beyond auction in 2006, perhaps even to this day.

Richard
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