"Alfa Romeo prewar 6C?" - Ebay - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-11-2014, 02:25 AM Thread Starter
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"Alfa Romeo prewar 6C?" - Ebay

Saw this on Ebay and thought that the alleged 6C may be of interest. No connection to the seller, and I know very little (if anything) about prewar Alfa Romeos:

Alfa Romeo Prewar 6C Rolling Chassis 2600 Engine Gearbox Rear Axle Differential in Mornington, VIC | eBay
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-11-2014, 10:01 AM
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Yeah, another one of those, eh? I believe this thread deserves a few pictures for posterity. The chassis clearly appears to be the work of an amateur, as it seems an intake manifold and carbs cannot be mounted because they would interfere with the steering column.

The chassis number described (but not shown in pictures) as 1341537 does not seem to belong to any Alfa Romeo model in Fusi's listing. Buy-it-now price is AUD 40k (with about 17 hours to go in the auction).

Auction text:
Quote:
ALFA ROMEO PREWAR 6C? ROLLING CHASSIS [1938-1952] FITTED WITH POSTWAR 2600 ENGINE ,GEARBOX AND REAR AXLE AND DIFFERENTIAL.THE EXPERTS WILL KNOW BETTER THAN ME EXACTLY WHICH CHASSIS THIS IS,AS IT IS THE CHASSIS THAT IS THE MORE IMPORTANT PART OF THIS COMBINATION.THE CHASSIS IS IN WONDERFUL CONDITION WITH NO RUST OR DAMAGE WHATSOEVER . SAYING THAT THE ENGINE AND GEARBOX AND DIFFERENTIAL ARE THEMSELVES QUITE RARE, THE ENGINE WAS REBUILT SOME YEARS AGO AND THE GEARBOX WAS IN GOOD CONDITION. IT IS HARD TO PUT A VALUE ON THIS VERY RARE AND VALUABLE CHASSIS, SO I WILL START THE AUCTION AT A SENSIBLE PRICE WITH NO RESERVE

WHEEL BASE IS122" OR 3100MM. IT HAS NOW BEEN DISCOVERED THAT THIS CHASSIS HAS BEEN ALTERED AND 14" ADDED TO THE MID SECTION TO MAKE A TURISMO CHASSIS .THE CHASSIS WOULD HAVE HAD ORIGINALLY A WHEELBASE OF 108" SPORT/ ZAGATO? THE ALTERATION IS SO WELL DONE IT IS NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TO SEE. ALSO THE INSIDE OF THE CHASSIS HAS BEEN BEAUTIFULLY BOXED WITH OVAL CUTOUTS , IT IS HARD TO KNOW IF THIS HAS BEEN ADDED OR FACTORY ORIGINAL.

A CHASSIS NUMBER HAS NOW BEEN FOUND STAMPED INTO TOP OF THE SPRING MOUNT, FRONT RIGHT.AGAIN NOT SURE IF THIS IS THE ORIGINAL CHASSIS NUMBER OR LATER ADDED 7 DIGITS WITH WHAT LOOKS LIKE 1341537

I HAVE DESCRIBED THE ABOVE TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE BUT PLEASE ASK QUESTIONS BEFORE BIDDING AS THIS IS AN AUCTION AND ALL SALES ARE FINAL

I WILL SHIP INTERNATIONALLY BUT ALL COSTS AND ARRANGEMENTS ARE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PURCHASER
Attached Images
    

-Ruedi
[SIZE="1"]'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, the car in my avatar, sold as resto project to Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).[/SIZE]
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-11-2014, 04:43 PM
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I personal doubt that the chassis has anything to do with Alfa Romeo, could be anything ...
Pete

'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-11-2014, 05:20 PM
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Definitley not a 6C chassis:
alfaromeo 1932 6c 1750 gran sport chassis - the history of cars - exotic cars - customs - hot rods - classic cars - vintage cars -


Front Spring mounts/spreader bar are not the way Alfa made them.

1966 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce - pretty much finished!
Bunch of bikes too.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-11-2014, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
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Glad that those with more expertise than me were quick to comment.

Interestingly, the car originally had a buy it now price of AUD$27k but was then raised to AUD$40k - perhaps as the result of interest from those not appreciating the obvious differences between a real 6C and a down under special.
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-12-2014, 05:59 AM
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Same seller has this lot of 6C goodies,

Vintage Alfa Romeo 6C 1750 1929 Orig Brake Drums Shoes Axles Back Plates | eBay

That price is.... wow !

Cheers.

'74 2000 GTV - Robinia Metallizzato, '73 1.3 Giulia Super - Giallo Prototipo, '68 1750 S1 Berlina - Verde Oliva Metallizzato
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-12-2014, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTV-074 View Post
Same seller has this lot of 6C goodies,

Vintage Alfa Romeo 6C 1750 1929 Orig Brake Drums Shoes Axles Back Plates | eBay

That price is.... wow !

Cheers.
This looks more 6C 1750 than the other stuff (also listed at AUD 40k):

Quote:
VINTAGE ALFA ROMEO 6C 1750 1929 VERY RARE BRAKE DRUMS X 4 ,COMPLETE BACKING PLATES AND BRAKE SHOES ,WHEEL CYLINDERS ,SPRINGS X 4,FRONT BEAM AXLE ,KING PIN UPRIGHTS,STEERING RODS,STUB AXLES X 2 ,REAR DIFFERENTIAL CASING,AXLE HALF SHAFTS X2

THESE ARE THE LEFT OVER PARTS FROM AN EARLIER RESTORATION AND ARE VERY VERY RARE.

AFTER MANY QUESTIONS IT HAS NOW BEEN ESTABLISHED WHICH CAR THESE BELONG ,THEY HAVE BEEN STORED FOR MORE THAN 40 YEARS

I HAVE ENDEAVOURED TO DESCRIBE THESE PARTS ACCURATELY BUT PLEASE ASK QUESTIONS BEFORE BIDDING

I WILL SELL OVERSEAS BUT ALL SHIPPING ARRANGEMENTS AND COSTS ARE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PURCHASER .PLEASE MAKE CONTACT SO SHIPPING CAN BE WORKED OUT.
Attached Images
     

-Ruedi
[SIZE="1"]'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, the car in my avatar, sold as resto project to Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).[/SIZE]
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-12-2014, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubut View Post
This looks more 6C 1750 than the other stuff (also listed at AUD 40k):
...but doesn't match the images from a 6C 1750 parts catalog:
Attached Images
   

-Ruedi
[SIZE="1"]'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, the car in my avatar, sold as resto project to Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).[/SIZE]
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-13-2014, 12:58 PM
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1921 Hodge-Podge ??

Hmmm. The chassis may indeed be the important element?

The number reported "1341537" might refer to a Fiat 501? A few images of a Fiat 501 chassis seem as if they might correspond? The Fiat 501 had a wheelbase of 2.650mm. Add approximately four inches ... it becomes 2.750mm.

A Fiat 502 had a chassis approximately 4 inches longer than a Fiat 501 but was otherwise very similar. No lengthening needed to arrive at 2.750mm!

Oh wait, an Alfa Romeo 6C1750 Super Sport of the most desirable form is supposed to have a wheelbase of 2.745mm! Never mind that we can measure a number of minor variations in actual cars that are known today.

A 502 rolling chassis (chassis 2340079, "from 1924") is currently being offered on prewarcar at roughly UK L. 4000 ... It appears rather similar aside from lacking those prewar front disc brakes(!) and an Alfa Romeo engine that does not fit.

Buon divertimento!

John
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-13-2014, 02:18 PM
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John, both the front and rear axles seem to indicate the car they came from had hydraulic brakes. Would that apply to Fiat 501 or 502?

-Ruedi
[SIZE="1"]'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, the car in my avatar, sold as resto project to Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).[/SIZE]
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 08-13-2014, 03:40 PM
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Neither Fiat 501 nor Fiat 502 ...

Neither the 501 nor the 502 had hydraulic brakes. Both the 501 and the 502 had no front brakes in standard form. The 503 (1926 onwards) had four-wheel brakes but they were all mechanical brakes, front and rear. I could check some sources more carefully to be more certain of when and which cars had what sort of brakes, but it would tell us little about the chassis or the parts offered by the seller. Not all is original in any case!

Alfa Romeo 6C1500 & 6C1750 cars were all fitted originally during the 1920's and 1930's with mechanical brakes. It was not until the 6C2300 (mostly the 6C2300B of 1935 and later) that Alfa Romeo began using hydraulic brakes in their street cars. It seems possible that some late 6C2300(A) cars were fitted originally or very early on with hydraulic brakes but I've not seen any documentation to that effect. And, some earlier cars became retrofitted, probably some by Alfa Romeo but more often by independent garages. Many early cars were converted in the UK and some in the USA, particularly by some adventurous racer-types.

John
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-23-2019, 02:11 AM
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Hi All,
Thanks for posting the details.
I found this same project 'special' a few months ago.
I managed to get just the rolling chassis (probably FIAT) with 2600 106 brakes and wheels.
I'm just exploring some brake, axle and suspension options for a special using a 2300 4cylinder engine and gearbox from a Alfa Romeo Rio(made in Brazil) and some Aston Martin 16" wire wheels. I don't have a body/radiator as such or the red brake drums and axles when listed in 2014.

Found these vintage grease nipples(picture), bronze bushes and a kingpin and some other parts from a 30's/40's workshop (mainly English cars) that had closed recently. The guy was into manufacturing and repair of cars. I will be visiting the workshop again next Tuesday if any one is looking for anything tell me.
Cheers Steve
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Last edited by Steve105; 06-23-2019 at 05:28 AM.
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 02:18 AM
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The chassis and front axle are apparently Fiat 503, the loose brake drums are 8th series Lancia Lambda and the current diff on the chassis is 2600 Alfa. I didn't know what it all was until recently when I came across the chap who created it all. It was previously fitted to a vintage special race car (not that chassis) which was later dismanteled. I kept the drums, front axle and diff housing before selling the rolling frame on to you Steve.
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 05:33 AM
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Hi Toby,
Thanks again for the chassis and parts, also thanks for working with getting it ready and helping the courier loading it in the van.
The chassis does look good with those boxed in sections.

Australian culture is filled with amazing stories of specials being put together. It's great you managed to hear the story from the chap who created the special.
Regards Steve

Last edited by Steve105; 06-24-2019 at 05:53 AM.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 06-24-2019, 07:54 AM
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My notes show that this chassis was reported 2014 as bearing the chassis number "1341537".
There is no Fiat 503 known to my studies bearing this sort of number. This does not make such a number impossible for a Fiat 503 but I would certainly like to know some details as to why this chassis is believed to be Fiat 503.

The 503 chassis identified thus far in my studies are numbered:
420xxxx
421xxxx
422xxxx
423xxxx
424xxxx

I have questions about certain numbers reported for Fiat 501 cars that may reveal some inconsistencies (perhaps bad data?) when answered?

I've been told more than once that, for the Fiat 501, the first two digits "13" in a chassis number signify "export" examples. That the third digit represents the year. I wonder if the second digit actually represents a chassis length variation that was often exported and became identified "export" as a result?

There is a Fiat 501 numbered 1341704 in the "Museo Nazionale dell'Automobile" in Torino. The museum was born as Museo dell'Automobile "Carlo Biscaretti di Ruffia" when formed and carried that name until relatively recently. The car was displayed as a "1921" example when I looked at it a bit carefully (approximately 30 years ago) but I suspect the chassis & engine date from 1924. Now I wonder what the wheelbase length is! They have another Fiat 501 that I should look at more carefully to identify the chassis number and check additional details.

There is (or was) a Fiat 501 in Australia with a chassis number reported as "1342093".

119xxxx numbers were theoretically issued 1919.
130xxxx numbers were theoretically issued 1920. It seems likely that there were 120xxxx numbers as well?
121xxxx numbers were theoretically issued 1921.
122xxxx numbers were theoretically issued 1922.
123xxxx numbers were theoretically issued 1923.
124xxxx numbers were theoretically issued 1924.
125xxxx numbers were theoretically issued 1925.

"140135" (if there is no reporting error?) may fit among the 1920 cars?
1413841 may fit among the 1921 cars?
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