Alfa Romeo 6C1750 Gran Sport - Fifth Series - Page 3 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #31 of 116 (permalink) Old 05-19-2014, 10:08 PM Thread Starter
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6C10814325

A query was received 2005 about this chassis number. I knew nothing specific at that time and no additional information was shared in return.

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post #32 of 116 (permalink) Old 07-01-2014, 08:43 AM Thread Starter
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6C10814326

Chassis 6C10814326 was issued a Certificato d'Origine on 8 April 1931 and was sold the same day to Umberto Gerardi. The Gerardi family had owned and raced some earlier 6C1500 cars as well. It seems likely that the car raced at least three times with the "fratelli Gerardi" during 1931. The Mille Miglia is the only event confirmed thus far, thanks to a photo from Ferruccio Testi that exists in the Franco Zagari archives with Matt Spitzley. The Gerardi brothers were 5th o/a. The car was sold on after only seven months.

Three owners later, the car was re-bodied by Carrozzeria Touring for Carlo Torelli of Livorno after he'd owned it for a couple of years. Perhaps there was an accident or perhaps the racing Zagato body seemed too spartan once the car was no longer being raced? The initial Livorno license plate was replaced 1935 and I suspect that this event accompanied the re-body by Touring even though it has been proposed that the re-body took place in 1936. Some focused study will probably reveal something more about this and I am hopeful that somebody might make some efforts to do so. We may learn something about Touring as well as the history of this specific car.

Edit 3 April 2015: A careful review of the identified Touring body numbers of the 1930's and the origin dates of the cars they were fitted to (using mostly 6C2300 cars as reference material at this time) makes a strong case for identifying the Touring re-body of this car as having taken place during 1935, and perhaps more precisely, having been completed around May of that year.

10814326 had approximately fifteen owners from that time into the 1970's and exists today with its lovely Touring body that is unique. As with virtually all of these cars, there are minor mysteries to be studied by those who wish to describe each characteristic. In this case, each mystery serves as a pleasant reminder that there are many "Ahah!" moments awaiting us.
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post #33 of 116 (permalink) Old 07-01-2014, 08:52 AM Thread Starter
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6C10814327

Chassis 6C10814327 was issued a Certificato di Origine on 9 April 1931 and was sold that same day to Umberto Klinger. Klinger shared the car with Tomaso Saccomani on the Mille Miglia and finished 4th overall. The car may have had some racing use by others before being sold in September to Nereo Pertile. Pertile used the car at times and it became modified substantially until some might say it resembled a Bugatti more than an Alfa Romeo. By 1935, the car appeared at least once as a "PN2000" with "PN" probably being indicative of Pertile Nereo(?).
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post #34 of 116 (permalink) Old 07-01-2014, 09:08 AM Thread Starter
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6C10814328

Thanks to some historical information found and shared by Simon Moore, we can identify some 1932 and 1933 racing history for this chassis with its early Swiss owner. Much more research could be done.

Some confused information has been reported in recent years about a car existing in Germany that seemed perhaps in search of an identity(?) and may have settled on "10814328" even if perhaps only for a time? Other numbers have also been reported in association with the car ... that reportedly has neither engine 10814328 nor chassis 10814328. Although one could make an argument that the remainder of the original car might exist with both the engine and chassis having been changed, any evidence will probably need to be pretty convincing in order to accept such a car as being representative of the original "6C10814328"?
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post #35 of 116 (permalink) Old 08-29-2014, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
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6C10814329

10814329 seems to have existed in Canada for a number of years. A nice spider by Zagato. I've received an historic photo and the identity. I have a few additional notes that are rather vague. It has a UK plate that was issued in the 1950's.
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post #36 of 116 (permalink) Old 08-29-2014, 04:37 PM Thread Starter
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6C10814330

Nothing is known to me at this time of 10814330. At least, not by chassis number.
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post #37 of 116 (permalink) Old 08-29-2014, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
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6C10814331

10814331 was given a Certificato d'Origine on 13 May 1931. Two notes report that it was "spider Zagato" or "probably Zagato spider". Seems likely that it was a Zagato and I am seeking photographic confirmation. We can be pretty certain that it raced a bit in the hands of the second and the sixth owners. A photo will turn up. The car was acquired 1938 by the owner of Carrozzeria Aprile in Savona and a new body was made to a design by Mario Revelli de Beaumont. It is a lovely thing that has seemingly survived mostly unscathed by time. I should not say this too pedantically as I've not yet looked under her hood nor under her skirts.

The PRA paperwork gives us a good example of why we should not trust implicitly the declared ownership transfer dates nor the declared prices/values of cars during sales events. The documents show that the first owner purchased the car and borrowed lire 55.000 as part of the process. When the car was declared "sold" on 19 January 1932, the loan was declared as having been paid off the previous day. The new price/value declaration was lire 6500. The new owner had already used the car in one sporting event late in 1931.

Sometimes there is bureaucratic history that does not quite agree with actual use history!

In this instance, we can surmise that the ownership change could not be recorded in a legal sense until the loan payoff declaration was received. Hence, no matter when the car was actually sold to the second owner, the bureaucratically recorded sale date will be a date following the cancellation of the loan obligation.

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post #38 of 116 (permalink) Old 08-29-2014, 04:48 PM Thread Starter
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6C10814332

10814332 has been reported a couple of times in the last two or three decades but there are confusions. Confusions that I'd love to clear up!

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post #39 of 116 (permalink) Old 08-29-2014, 04:50 PM Thread Starter
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6C10814333

10814333 had its origins during May of 1931. It was given a "numero d'ufficio" chassis number in Milano during 1947 for a reason that is yet to be determined.
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post #40 of 116 (permalink) Old 08-29-2014, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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6C10814334

10814334 had its origins during May of 1931.

Additional history can be researched quite routinely with information already to hand. Would someone like to sponsor this?
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post #41 of 116 (permalink) Old 08-29-2014, 04:55 PM Thread Starter
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6C10814335

10814335 ... the latest news I have of this car is when it was offered February 1992 by Dan Margulies.

Rest in Peace Danny!

... even if there are many questions I'd like to ask of you.
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post #42 of 116 (permalink) Old 09-04-2014, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
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6C10814336

I know nothing yet of chassis or engine 10814336.
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post #43 of 116 (permalink) Old 09-04-2014, 11:44 AM Thread Starter
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6C10814337

Vague notes seem to indicate that someone knows something of the history of this car. It was reputedly sold new in Italy, was later registered in GB and then came to the USA only to return to the UK perhaps around 1990?

Photos taken 1951 and 1952 in the USA imply that the body underwent quite a major revision between August and May ... and was perhaps sold during that time period as well.

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post #44 of 116 (permalink) Old 09-04-2014, 11:58 AM Thread Starter
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6C10814338

10814338 was given a very light body by Zagato when new and sold to Scuderia Ferrari during May 1931. The body had triangular vent panels in the sides as was the norm of that time but had no bright trim. After the 1931 racing season was concluded, the car was given a new body with the then-current rectangular venting panels and typical bright trim highlights. It was sold March 1932 to a new owner who did the Mille Miglia and may have sold it on immediately afterwards. The official ownership trail indicates it was sold July 1932 to Ferrari and then on to the next owner in Novara... who may have raced it already a few months earlier? Additional studies should be done about the players and the various cars at their disposal!

10814338 was sold on again earlyin 1933 and then again almost immediately in May to the Torino Alfa agency which re-registered the car in Torino. A photo of Giuseppe Vianini sitting on the car appears in the book "Alfa Romeo Argentina" (2005, by Cristian bertschi & Estanislao Iacona) on page 288. That photo may date from either May of 1933 or from the Spring/Summer of 1934 when the car returned to the dealership a second time?

10814338 was sold on through a couple of additional Torinese owners before being sold 1937 to an Italian living in Massaua (or "Massawa") in Eritrea, an area that was under Italian military control beginning 1935 as part of the "Africa Orientale Italiana" (A.O.I.) until World War II intervened.
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post #45 of 116 (permalink) Old 09-04-2014, 12:05 PM Thread Starter
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6C10814339

The early history of 10814339 is not yet identified. The engine and gearbox were set aside in Switzerland by the owner of another 6C1750 who also had a number of cars in his own private museum. The engine and gearbox had come from an accident-damaged chassis that was sitting in a scrapyard in Switzerland.

Subsequently, it seems that two cars have appeared claiming the chassis identity. I do not if either is based on the actual chassis.

Last edited by iicarJohn; 03-07-2015 at 11:23 AM.
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