Alfa Romeo 6C1750 Gran Sport - Fifth Series - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #16 of 116 (permalink) Old 03-06-2014, 04:46 PM
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6C10814301

Dear John,
I also have some images of this car but as I don't know the source I am not posting them here.
Here what I think is the description from Christies' catalogue.
C.-
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post #17 of 116 (permalink) Old 03-06-2014, 04:50 PM
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6C10814311

This is Phil Hill with 10814311.
I spoke with him a couple of times. One was at Laguna Seca in 2005 I think. He was driving Auriana's 3000CM #126.
We showed him this picture along with some others from the same set and he said he did not remember about it nor the car but he said it was definitely him, with a nice touch of humor.
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post #18 of 116 (permalink) Old 03-27-2014, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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motore 6C10814312

As noted, this car (or the engine in another car?) was reborn postwar with a curious numerical identity. It could be that the chassis was still the original and was numbered 032091 for bureaucratic reasons only?

Phil Hill owned a car numbered "6C10814312" for a time. It is possible that it was this same car. But I do not yet know this.

News has been received of the history of 10814312 beginning 1938 ... which is likely to lead to earlier info as well. See also post #6 in this thread.
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Last edited by iicarJohn; 01-11-2018 at 07:20 PM. Reason: News of old.
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post #19 of 116 (permalink) Old 03-30-2014, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
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6C10814314

A car existing today was seen 1991 by Peter Giddings. He reported seeing the Zagato body #980 on something or another. 6C10814356 is a car that was perhaps given a "hurry-up" for some reason and some of the structure of the Zagato body (that carries #987 as the definitive body number) carries #980 numbering ... as if the #980 Zagato work order was taken over by the #987 work order. It is also possible that the customer under work order #980 asked for something a bit "different" after the work was already begun and that the structure #980 became available for that reason? Or, the customer for #980 was slow to pay or make some decision ...? Or ... ???

I suppose that a first step we should take before going too far into the realm of "What if ...?" might be to verify that the body number really is "980" in this instance. It would be rather silly if we were looking instead at "086" as perhaps the last digits of some other sort of numbering?

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post #20 of 116 (permalink) Old 04-09-2014, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
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6C10814317

10814317 is said to have been taken to Libya by Italo Balbo. There's been no documentation of this so far as I know. The car was found in Libya, disassembled into parts, crated, and shipped to the USA (reportedly labeled as "defective aircraft engine") for Arthur L. Todd. The engine was rebuilt and the body repainted. The body has been described as "Touring with Monza radiator cowling". Here is a photo from a time period when the car lived in California.
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post #21 of 116 (permalink) Old 04-09-2014, 05:00 PM Thread Starter
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6C10814318

Two cars claim the identity "10814318" today. I have seen one of them and have collected a good deal of information (and many photos) describing the other. (Edit 17 July 2014: I've now seen both cars and there are important changes to the following two postings as a result.)

The first car that I saw (numbered "10814318") was in Italy as of 2007 and may still be there? I came away thinking that there was little or none of the original car numbered "10814318" from Alfa Romeo. Even so, I tried to give it some "benefit of the doubt". This is no longer possible in July of 2014.

The other car numbered "10814318" was also in Italy for a time and I made a casual attempt to see it there but some holiday scheduling conflicts prevented me from doing so in 2007. It is now more than seven years later and I have finally seen the other car. I am convinced that it is composed of the major mechanical elements of the car that was numbered 6C10814318 by Alfa Romeo. No forensic testing has been done, nor do I feel it should be necessary. The evidence is quite clear and convincing.

I have separated the two descriptions into individual postings below.

Last edited by iicarJohn; 07-16-2014 at 10:14 PM. Reason: New evidence ... new wording
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post #22 of 116 (permalink) Old 04-12-2014, 04:45 PM Thread Starter
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6C10814318 ex-Symbolic Motor Car Company

(Edit 25 December 2015: New information has been identified from French registration documents located and shared by Nicolas Brondel. The original owner was Pierre Felix beginning 4 June 1931. The car may have made some interesting racing history during 1931 with Pierre Felix and Jean Pesato but this remains to be confirmed. It is seemingly possible that Chinetti and Zehender might have used the car as well during November of 1931. During 1932, the car was sold to Roger Champion and then quickly to Andree Champion. The car was then seemingly sold 1935 and re-registered to someone in Paris but the Parisian records do not exist today. The car turned up again 1941 when it was sold during March as "spoils of war" to Rudolf Mehl and was registered outside of Paris. It went again to Paris during 1947 and the French record seems to end there. I do not yet know if the car was still Mehl's when it was re-registered in Paris. We can thank Nicolas Brondel for the research that has revealed a great number of new leads for our studies.

(Edit 17 April 2014) [I] Based on a thorough review of the major elements of 6C10814318 I can now share additional details and observations with far greater certainty. There is evidence now in hand to support the following revised description of this car. As often happens with the study of these cars, a few new pieces of knowledge gained through reviewing existing evidence, some of which could-have (should-have?) been shared years ago(!), gives us the ability to describe additional cars with increased accuracy. In this instance, both of the cars existing today numbered "10814318" can be described more completely and 6C10814368 can now be described with some increased certainty. Hence, there will edits to the following posting as well and the description of 6C10814368 (not yet shared) will be written with greater accuracy and certainty.

Before I get too far into this revision of the posting describing 6C10814318, I must acknowledge that the mechanical basis for the identity of this car is now proven out in my mind. Various reporting errors of the past made the car seem possibly "suspect" as to its identity but this is no longer the case. It seems clear to me that the chassis, engine, gearbox, rear end housing, steering box are all Alfa Romeo-made parts from 1931 that are almost certain to have come from the original car numbered 6C10814318. There are additional individual components that also support this identification. It must also be acknowledged that there are a great many parts present in the car that were fitted in more recent years. Most of those parts appear to be well made and seem to be acceptable to multiple "restoration" efforts made to an original car. As an example, two differently configured "Made in Italy" Rudge road wheels are in use as spares. Either (but not both) "might be original" to the car (or its early historical usage) while the wheels "on the ground" all appear to be of more recent manufacture. A prior reporting error regarding the Memini carburetor made it seem as if there was perhaps something a bit odd but a careful inspection revealed that two digits were stamped very close together making it appear as if "101534" was perhaps the erroneously reported "10534". Some things have to be seen and studied carefully if we are to consider them seriously as "evidence"!

(Edit 17 April 2014) "I have not seen this car personally but" should now read: Over the past two days I have looked carefully at this car and have reviewed again a great many photos supplied 2005 by Bill Noon well after he sold 10814318 during April of 2001 to Italy. Beginning 2005, I have sought to learn more from others who have been involved with the car at various times. I am always seeking to learn more detail.

6C10814318 was sold June 1969 from Mark Gibbons (Boston, MA, USA) to Keith Hellon in Illinois. The car was described as "Zagato" at the time. We don’t know how long Mark Gibbons owned it but it was evidently long enough to have been a part of his collection for a time. It was probably the car that was referred to generically as a “1932 Alfa Romeo” when the histories of other cars from his collection are described historically.

An owner prior to Gibbons has been reported as “Phil Kupeco” of Willimansett, Massachusetts. I am not convinced that the spelling of the “Kupeco” name is correct. Any thoughts as to who this person might be would be most welcome!

10814318 was sold circa 1972 (advertised Hemmings, April, 1972) to Maurizio Forleo in Italy. It then seems to have been sold into the UK where it traded from dealer to dealer for a time during the 1970’s. We have no specific documentation yet that the car “traded from dealer to dealer” in the UK was the same car that had gone from the USA to M. Forleo in Italy but there is also no reason to doubt this detail. It would be nice to have some confirmation from one or more of those un-named dealers!

10814318 was purchased in the UK by Yoshiyuki Hayashi of Japan, sometime around 1975 or 1976. It was apparently described legally as a “1932” car when we would expect this chassis number to have been completed rather early in 1931. There is no indication that the car ever went to Japan. The car sat around for a time in the UK and was eventually restored by Tony Merrick in company with 6C10814368, also owned by Mr. Hayashi. Mr. Hayashi reported through an intermediary (September, 2005) that he has no records remaining for these cars. Tony Merrick clearly did not think of the two cars based on their chassis identities. When queried (2005) by Simon Moore on my behalf, he reported that 10814318 had something or other on it or with it that suggested that it had come from the USA. No specific mention was made of Italy, M. Forleo or any earlier owners.

Mr. Merrick also described the two cars by a specific feature that we might think of as a sort of “fingerprint”. During their restorations, one of the two cars was given a new body that was copied from the other. Contrary to what has been reported (inconsistently) about both of the “Hayashi” cars (10814318 and 10814368), Tony Merrick, many years after his last work was completed on the two cars, remembered: “The original body had rounded and exposed rivet heads joining the body to the support structure and the copy body had flush-fitting rivets.”

(Edit 17 April 2014) I can now delete some speculative commentary and write in its place, Both cars have been re-restored (and altered) during subsequent restorations and some of Mr. Merrick's memories no longer serve as useful tools to us in the identification of which car had what work done by him. Fortunately, Mr. Merrick supplied some photos of the car that he thought of as being (perhaps) chassis 6C10814318. Those historic photos clearly show 6C10814368 prior to restoration and there are no photos of a car that can be identified as 6C10814318. Even so, this tells us a great deal about 6C10814318 and also the nature of some distant memories that are used perhaps too often as some sort of anecdotal "proof".

(Edit 17 April 2014)
At the moment, we have only some flawed promotional talk and writing that describes the original configuration of the body of 6C10814318. Unfortunately, there are no clues present in the car today as it is quite clear that the current Zagato-style body was made in part by Tony Merrick (copying the body that was on 6C10814368) and which has subsequently been revised in Italy for a subsequent owner.

(Edit 17 April 2014)
Both 10814318 and 10814368 have a "rectangular" insert venting panel today in the sides of their cockpit cowling. Although it seems as if an “error” might have been made by using a rectangular insert in the body of 10814318 rather than the triangular insert that we might expect based on observations of other cars from early in the fifth series, we cannot yet be certain about this detail's originality (or lack of it) in 6C10814318. We know that it is original to 6C10814368 ... as we might expect.

(Edit 17 April 2014)
10814318 was described 1998-1999 as having no documented early ownership or use history. I have to agree at this moment but this might change tomorrow or another day when new information comes to light.

(unedited)
This general description accompanied the car through three auctions when the car was offered by Symbolic Motor Car Company. At one point, the VIN number was reported as “10364317” and it seems that this number was probably seen by the reporter on the front axle? (edit ... now confirmed!)

During the same time period, 6C10814368 was also being offered by Symbolic inconsistently as not having its original body, a description that then became ignored in later descriptions. Photographs tell us that it is the car having flush-fitting rivets, i.e. supposedly the car that has the “new body” … as reported by Tony Merrick. Some interesting photos have recently turned up of 6C10814368 when it lived 1953 in the USA. More will be discussed later under a posting that will be devoted to that chassis number.

(edit: Several photos now in my hands, thanks to Tony Merrick having supplied them to the dealer "Thiesen" and the current owner of 6C10814318), clearly show us that it was 6C10814368 that retained at least a good portion of its original body and certain specific characteristics that were repeated in the body made for 6C10814318 tell us quite clearly the source of some of that body's shapes, some of which have been subsequently made more typical of a greater number of Zagato bodies of the time.)

unedited:
6C10814318 passed to Bill Noon seemingly near the end of 1999 or early 2000. He used it on several events during 2000 before selling it April 2001 to a new owner in Italy. Bill shared enough detail photos of the car to suggest to my studies that it seems quite likely to be the car that I would describe as 6C10814318 once a personal inspection (edit: ... now accomplished!)

(Edit 17 April 2014)
Some non-historical number “clues” have been inserted into the discussion in the past. The last four digits of the chassis number were stamped into quite a number of body pieces as if to suggest that they should be considered to be a body number. We now know that this work was done almost certainly by or for Tony Merrick for Mr. Hayashi.

The 1931 history that has been claimed for this car seems to be entirely circumstantial and I have no great confidence that the "Felix" name found inside the "Uso e Manutenzione" manual accompanying the car (edit: ... for a time, after the car passed to Bill Noon) reflects on the history of this chassis number. Based on what has been reported to date we cannot know that this booklet was accompanying the car during the 1970's. The auction offerings of 1998 and 1999 specifically indicated that no earlier history was known or even supposed.

More historical study is needed!


Certain numbered features of this car can be seen quite easily. Additional information is sought from the remainder of the car.

The “frame number” (assigned to the frame itself during its build process before the chassis/engine/VIN number was assigned) is “10434350". This number was a tracking number assigned to the frame alone.

The crankcase number (located on top, between the cylinder block and the gearbox) is “10824317”.

The steering box is numbered “10154228” and has the ratio “3x29” marked most prominently today. These numbers have been stamped on top of “0152903” and the ratio “3x26”. There is also an “SS” marking that is certain (in my mind) to have been associated with the original numbering and is reflective of the steering box’s first intended use in an early “SuperSport” chassis. This sort of re-use and repurposing can be shown for quite a number of steering boxes and does not reflect negatively on what we might think of the “originality” of this component. It “fits in to expectations” (quite precisely!) based on observations of similarly numbered cars and their steering boxes. As an aside, based on too little data to be entirely certain, it seems the steering box (when numbered “0152903”) might have been used originally in a car numbered near 6C0312950(?) … presuming the steering box had earlier use in a car.

The Memini carburetor has been reported as being numbered “10534” but is now known to be “DOA N.101534”.

The gearbox number has been reported as “1044313” but this number does not include the third digit that was clearly drilled away. The complete number was “10344313” with the ratio “17x27”.

The front axle is numbered “10364371”. This number was reported as a “chassis number” during an auction offering of 1999.

The gear carrier in the rear axle housing is numbered "0172120" and bears the unusually "tall" ratio of 12/49.

The rear axle housing bears the number "10484315". It was thoroughly hidden by plastic filler and paint that also hid all signs of the original fabrication welds and other markings. Who'd have thought that such a hidden part of a car would be prepared as if it was to be entered in a "Concorso d'Eleganza di Ponti Posteriori"?

Many additional "hidden" clues were also checked and I am comfortable to call this car "6C10814318" without any lingering doubt. It is unfortunate that this determination removes any "benefit of the doubt" that was given until this time to the car that is described by the following posting ... that must now be revised.
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Last edited by iicarJohn; 12-25-2015 at 02:50 PM. Reason: New information found ...
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post #23 of 116 (permalink) Old 04-12-2014, 05:45 PM Thread Starter
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"6C10814318" ex- Giovanni Giordanengo

“6C10814318” is a second claimant to the identity of “10814318”.

edit 17 July 2014: I can no longer place this car in a category of "perhaps based on some part of the original". In my mind, this car is now in search of a valid identity and I will continue to study it in that light.

I saw this car during the Spring of 2007 by request of the owner at the time. We'd corresponded about it beginning 2005. Although I cannot call my viewing an “inspection” I did come away with some strong impressions and some photos, many of which are not entirely pleasing due to the camera’s inability to deal effectively with low light. Never again will I purchase a small Nikon despite the implications of "quality" that come from the exaggerated price point! It is not enough to have been pleased with older SLR cameras from them and the company has lost any loyalty I might have felt.

Again, I have some strong doubts about the claim to the identity. The circumstances under which the car appeared may dovetail with some possible re-use of the Italian importation paperwork and some parts that may have remained in Italy while the other “10814318” (as described above) was sold to the UK? This possibility is offered only as a vague "Maybe?".

This “car” was reportedly acquired late 1978 by Massimo Colombo from Belgium. The “car” sold by Massimo was described as "complete chassis, engine with blower, gearbox, driveshaft, springs, wheels, brakes, firewall and portions of the body". This “10814318” also was said (later on) to have been owned previously by Keith Hellon. I do not know if this was reflected by the paperwork accompanying the car or if it was assumed based on (earlier or subsequent?) reports of ownership, based solely on the chassis number that is described in the previous posting.

This car was sold circa 1978/79 to Giovanni Giordanengo and then to a new Belgian owner and was restored by Giordanengo, seemingly as part of the arrangement. Some re-restoration was reportedly done later by Mr. Giordanengo after a “minor fire” did some damage to the car. It is not clear but it seems that the “before” photos we have were perhaps taken during that later work … even though the car is seemingly in its former “kit” state in some of the few photos that have been shared. Mr. Giordanengo stated to the next Italian owner that he’d only worked on two similar cars and that he believed both of them to have been genuine … although he acknowledged that the gearbox of this one may have come only from a similarly configured car. The parts that I saw in the car seem to indicate otherwise as to the majority of the car.

Unlike the ID plate that is on the earlier car discussed, which does appear to be perhaps “original”, this chassis ID plate makes no attempt to pretend to be an original. The engine ID plate is missing and there are no obvious signs remaining of where it would have been attached.

The chassis number stamping (“6C10814318”) does not appear to be an Alfa Romeo stamping to my eyes. This does not invalidate the chassis all by itself as there are other similar chassis with anomalies that can be explained away by historical events. In this case, the frame number “10434345” also does not appear to be an Alfa Romeo stamping. Even this might be explained away by unusual circumstance in early times … but there is the above chassis (6C10814318) that seems to be quite “correct” in both of these details … as well as the ID plates on both the firewall and the engine, characteristics that this car lacks.

The engine number “6C10814318” resembles superficially a double-line font style that was used by Alfa Romeo. The location of the number stamping is not “normal” and there is evidence of the number having been stamped on an area that seems perhaps to have been welded into a crankcase numbered “8723743”, a crankcase that would normally be found in a Turismo 1750. The crankcase lacks a number that is normally stamped near the supercharger mounting area at the right front of a Gran Sport engine. Any individual anomaly might allow us to “look the other way” but this engine exhibits too many inconsistencies to be easily called “Gran Sport” in origin. At a very minimum, it warrants closer inspection.

The gearbox number is partially hidden by the floorboards and I could not record the entire number. The last digit is therefor not yet identified with certainty. For the purpose of this review, it really does not matter if it is "0142560" or if the last digit might be an "8" or a "9". It is simply too early to have been used under normal circumstances in a 5th Series Gran Sport.

The steering box is numbered “10254525” and this steering box might be expected to have been used originally in a 6C1750 GT from the fifth series..

The rear end housing is heavily rust-pitted and the original stamped numbering is very difficult to identify with certainty. The number appears to begin “8583” and finishes perhaps with “565” but these last digits are less distinct. Again, all digits are difficult to read! This rear end housing might seem to come most likely from a car in the fourth series and the one meaningful similarly numbered “sample” I’ve noted is in a 1750GT numbered “8613xxx”.

The gear carrier in the rear end is numbered 10174099 with the ratio marking 11/54. The component numbering comes from the fifth series and might therefor be thought of as generally “correct” for the claimed chassis number. The ratio would have most often been supplied with a 1750GT car or a 1750GTC and seems most likely in this case to have come from a car of GT specification that was first sold 1931. Mr. Giordanengo stated at one point to the then-Italian owner that the ratio fitted is actually 12x54.

Again, more study is needed, but I do not truly expect to find any real support for the identity "10814318" in this car.
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Last edited by iicarJohn; 08-30-2014 at 09:06 PM. Reason: new information makes for revised wording ...!
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post #24 of 116 (permalink) Old 05-12-2014, 11:35 AM Thread Starter
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6C10814315

New information is in on the early history of 6C10814315. A partial license plate seen in a photo from 1931 is what allowed this research to progress after making a lucky guess as to the digit that could not be seen. The first three owners all owned a number of Alfa Romeo cars through the years and the second owner is known to have raced an earlier car as well as this one. It seemed as if the second owner might have raced it on the Mille Miglia of 1931 but he purchased this car months afterwards. This makes his 1931 MM car still a subject for identification.

A car seems to exist today that claims the identity "10814315" and I have to wonder if it is based on the use of the engine 6C10814315 in a chassis yet to be identified?

The photo shared here shows 6C10814315 stripped down a bit for sporting use in 1931, although not what we might call an actual "race".

UPDATE: By invitation of the owner, I saw the car numbered "6C10814315" late in July. Very nice car with nicely made Zagato-style body by Dino Cognolato's "Nova Rinascente". The body appears to be a bit later in style than the original body of 6C10814315 is likely to have carried but we will need to find some better photos to document this.

After looking at this car, I can say that the engine is almost certain to be the same as that which I've traced through approximately 40 years of existence (and multiple owners) in the USA as an engine alone ... after it lost its gearbox for it to become a spare for another car. There is a mystery to unravel in how it is that the chassis may have become re-united (in the USA or in Italy?) with the engine in a manner that has been hidden rather than revealed.


The owner of the restored car is now chasing additional history while following the paper trail I supplied to him (five owners and four license plates in the car's first 20 months, ending in Florence thus far) as being our best chance of learning more. He is quite excited to have this opportunity to describe the early history of his engine ... and perhaps his chassis as well?
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Last edited by iicarJohn; 08-29-2014 at 04:30 PM.
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post #25 of 116 (permalink) Old 05-12-2014, 12:09 PM Thread Starter
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6C10814320

6C10814320 was sold new by Oreste Peverelli, the Alfa Romeo representative in Como. The question is, was it really a new car when he sold it? Peverelli raced in more than one Alfa Romeo 6C during 1931 ... and earlier and later. We can make no casual assumptions about which car was in use without some photographic reference or entry list documentation. Even with such data, there can sometimes be confusions.

The attached pdf file highlights what is known of the history of the car as of May 19, 2014. A previous version of this file (posted May 12) was viewed 14 times before it was modified and replaced. A restoration photo was found that shows the car was almost certainly fitted with the "normal" auxiliary oil tank when it had seemed that a 1959 photo from former owner, Barrington Smith, implied that there was none. I'd spent quite a lot of time looking for historical photographs of any car without the oil tank feature, thinking that one of them, one day, might turn out to be this car. That effort will certainly prove useful while studying other cars and may still lead to something more about this one during a portion of its life?

The earliest history is described thanks to research done based on some very helpful clues supplied by Angela Cherrett to David Love a few years ago. Corrado Bellabarba did some additional research that has proven to be very helpful.

This photo shows 6C10814320 at one of the Continental Divide crossings during the 2012 Colorado Grand.
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File Type: pdf 10814320-AlfaBB-iicar2014-05-19.pdf (450.7 KB, 306 views)

Last edited by iicarJohn; 08-30-2014 at 09:08 PM.
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post #26 of 116 (permalink) Old 05-12-2014, 12:51 PM Thread Starter
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A new "highlights" listing has replaced the old

See posting #3 for an updated listing that highlights what is known of the fifth series Gran Sport ... plus a few distractions.
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post #27 of 116 (permalink) Old 05-12-2014, 01:01 PM Thread Starter
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6C10814321

Gian Maria Cornaggia Medici registered this car late in March of 1931.

We might presume that 6C10814321 was the car he used on the Mille Miglia of 1931 but this is not yet verified. Some events from later in the year are documented and it seems he continued to race 6C10814321 through a good portion of 1932. It went back to Alfa Romeo, probably in part exchange for an 8C2300.
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Last edited by iicarJohn; 03-07-2015 at 11:18 AM.
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post #28 of 116 (permalink) Old 05-12-2014, 01:50 PM Thread Starter
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6C10814322

Two cars have claimed this identity in relatively recent years but only one of them seems to have existed as of the 1950's. I don't know enough about either car to report a lot of details. I hope to learn more about each of them.

The original car was first registered April 1931 in Genova and made its way during the 1950's to England.

A second car numbered "10814322" (and sometimes reported as "10814328") appears to have been built around a collection of parts with a Zagato-style body made reportedly by Pettenella. This car has a chassis number stamping that reports "10814322" and there is a digit "8" also visible under the last digit "2" ... causing some additional confusions. Some additional careful checking may reveal additional digits hiding under other number stampings?
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post #29 of 116 (permalink) Old 05-19-2014, 10:06 PM Thread Starter
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6C10814323

I saw this car during 1995 while spending some time in Italy. It seemed a very nice example that I've never studied in an historical sense. There is a license plate on it that was issued 1962. Perhaps it is time to begin a study traveling back through time?
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post #30 of 116 (permalink) Old 05-19-2014, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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6C10814324

Thanks to some research done by Corrado Bellabarba, I can now report:

6C10814324 was first sold 29 April 1931 by the Padova Alfa Romeo dealer to Giovanni Jonoch who listed his profession as "studente". Jonoch raced it three times during June and August and then sold it during August to Anselmo Anselmi (if I am reading the writing correctly) also of Padova. The car was sold May 1935 to a doctor near Rovigo and then again in June of 1937 to Giovanni Panozzo of Lonigo, near Vicenza. And it was sold again. It seems likely that Carlo Di Scalzi took the car from Vicenza to Asmara (Eritrea) and it was reportedly sold there during 1941 to "Petronio Barone". Mr. Barone's son has responded to another post on AlfaBB and I'll attempt to ask him to duplicate his response in this thread.

10814324 reportedly lived in Eritrea from about 1938 until about 1951. One report indicates that it may have been sold to the USA.

Last edited by iicarJohn; 01-12-2016 at 06:28 PM. Reason: News
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