6c 2500 Ss #915516 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-26-2009, 10:28 AM Thread Starter
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6c 2500 Ss #915516

Does anybody have more pictures and/or know about race history of this stunning looking car?

I'm told it is a 1942 6C 2500 SS with chassis number 915516 and body by Bertone on a chassis with 2700 mm wheel base that might stem from a 256.
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-Ruedi
[SIZE="1"]'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, the car in my avatar, sold as resto project to Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).[/SIZE]
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-26-2009, 10:53 AM
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While corresponding to a December 1942 Super Sport chassis, it is, in my understanding, way beyond the numbering sequence into which you can expect 256's, i.e. 915001 to 915118, where Sport are mixed with 256s.

One could still argue it has been renumbered, but then it has to be substantiated with some evidence.

It is possible I have seen that car around on some show, for sale and needing a full restoration, or is it a sister car?
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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-26-2009, 11:07 AM
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915.516 at Techno Classica Essen, 2003

(C) Barchetta
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-26-2009, 11:21 AM
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Thanks. My memory still serves.
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-26-2009, 11:33 AM Thread Starter
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I'm told the car is currently undergoing restoration in Italy.

-Ruedi
[SIZE="1"]'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, the car in my avatar, sold as resto project to Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).[/SIZE]
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-26-2009, 02:49 PM
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This is a beautiful one-off car. The car in the color photo is the same in the b&w, but the front air intakes are different. I saw them in another picture. Probably they was modified in 1959, following the new rules of the road, forcing to install the front direction indicator and to remove the side direction indicator levers.
I have no doubt the designer is Mario Revelli di Beaumont (1907-1985). He worked for Farina, Fiat carrozzerie speciali, Pininfarina, Bertone, Ghia, Siata, General Motors, Simca, and others. After the 1967 he worked in education, advising the School of Art and Design in Turin, and the Art Center College of Design in Pasadena.
The Alfa 915516 is a natural evolution of this 1941 Fiat 6C 1500 coupč, Revelli designed for Bertone.
The vehicle is exhibited at the National Car Museum of Turin.
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Last edited by PG1964; 12-27-2009 at 11:23 AM.
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-26-2009, 06:33 PM
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The windscreen wipers have been moved from the top of the windscreen to the bottom if it is the same car as in the B&W picture.

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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-26-2009, 07:27 PM Thread Starter
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There seem to be two (if not three) relatively similar looking cars: The one at Technoclassica in Essen 2003, the car at the National Car Museum of Turin, and this one which claims to have chassis number 915516. The grille and air inlets seem to be different on all three cars. Does anybody know the chassis number(s) of the car(s) in Turin and the car shown in Essen?
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-Ruedi
[SIZE="1"]'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, the car in my avatar, sold as resto project to Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).[/SIZE]

Last edited by tubut; 12-26-2009 at 08:03 PM.
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-26-2009, 11:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtv2000 View Post
While corresponding to a December 1942 Super Sport chassis, it is, in my understanding, way beyond the numbering sequence into which you can expect 256's, i.e. 915001 to 915118, where Sport are mixed with 256s.

One could still argue it has been renumbered, but then it has to be substantiated with some evidence.

It is possible I have seen that car around on some show, for sale and needing a full restoration, or is it a sister car?
Thanks for the picture, Patrick! I googled for "Scuderia Automobilistica Milan" and found some interesting information: According to this 2005 thread in the Autosport forum, this picture appeared in Auto Italiana 10-Feb-1946. And in this 2007 thread in the Autosport forum, dreceterini wrote about the Scuderia Automobilistica Milan:
Quote:
The outfit was variously named in entry lists, according to the different country and/or race to which the list referred. Today widely accepted abbreviation of Scuderia Milan will be used throughout the narrative, though it was not the original name. Together with his brother Emilio, Arialdo Ruggeri was the team manager. The Scuderia was founded in January 1946 with the backing of a group of enthusiasts and industrialists from Gallarate, which is an industrial town and the hometown of the Ruggeris. It is located in the outskirts of Milan, but their shop was "downtown Milan" at via Mos?Bianchi.
President of the Scuderia was Arnaldo Mazzucchelli and the technical director was professor Mario Speluzzi of the Milan Polytechnic, an expert in supercharging whose ideas had been put into practice mainly on speedboats.
The Ruggeris had built a 1100cc coupe Special for the 1940 Mille Miglia based on Fiat-SIATA components, and a series of new ones ? Neatly bodied by Bertone in barchetta fashion - was built in 1946 around a Fiat 1100 engine tuned with the help of Speluzzi and of Ing. Egidio Arzani, the designer at Volpini.
The interesting point about both threads is that they point to 1946. The car is also shown from a slightly different angle and without the girl but presumably the same background on p.288 of d'Amico & Tabucchi's book "Le vetture di Produzione" where the caption reads:
Quote:
Below, a 6C 2500 Super Sport produced by Carrozzeria Bertone of Turin to the design of Mario Revelli de Beaumont. This was the sixteenth Super Sport rolling chassis (No. 915516) completed on the 4th of December, 1942 and delivered to the concessionaire Oresto Peverelli of Como. It is reasonable to suppose that the finished car saw the light of day towards the end of 1943.

-Ruedi
[SIZE="1"]'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, the car in my avatar, sold as resto project to Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).[/SIZE]
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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-27-2009, 02:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubut View Post
There seem to be two (if not three) relatively similar looking cars: The one at Technoclassica in Essen 2003, the car at the National Car Museum of Turin, and this one which claims to have chassis number 915516. The grille and air inlets seem to be different on all three cars. Does anybody know the chassis number(s) of the car(s) in Turin and the car shown in Essen?
Er... The Turin Museum car is a Fiat 1500 as written above, and if you don't believe, watch the badge on the grille!

So, as far as Alfas are concerned, they have wiper blades hanging, while the Fiat has them on the bottom.

Now I see that the intakes external cut is indeed different, which was difficult to see with the camera angle, and your pic outside the body shop shows it's not just the extension of the chrome strips, so two sister cars I guess. I fail to understand why the grille shape would have been modified with the 1959 new road rules (which would imply welding material for closing the gaps), and the car under restoration has the extended grill. Or was it modified at the bodyshop for bringing it back to the original shape, if it's implied that the Essen resto project in one and the same as on the other pics, old and current?
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-27-2009, 06:57 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtv2000 View Post
Er... The Turin Museum car is a Fiat 1500 as written above, and if you don't believe, watch the badge on the grille!
Thanks for pointing this out: I both misread PG1964's post and didn't pay enough attention to the badge.
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Originally Posted by gtv2000 View Post
Now I see that the intakes external cut is indeed different, which was difficult to see with the camera angle, and your pic outside the body shop shows it's not just the extension of the chrome strips, so two sister cars I guess. I fail to understand why the grille shape would have been modified with the 1959 new road rules (which would imply welding material for closing the gaps), and the car under restoration has the extended grill. Or was it modified at the bodyshop for bringing it back to the original shape, if it's implied that the Essen resto project in one and the same as on the other pics, old and current?
There seem to be three questions:
1. What established that the car in the b/w pictures is 915516 (i.e. how accurate is the information in d'Amico & Tabucchi's book)?
2. Did the car in Essen have chassis number 915516?
3. Is it one and the same car (or two sister cars) and if so, was the nose changed from the b/w pictures to the appearance in Essen and then back to the appearance in the b/w pictures?

-Ruedi
[SIZE="1"]'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, the car in my avatar, sold as resto project to Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).[/SIZE]
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 12-27-2009, 11:37 AM
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I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, i already putted a correction on my post. As you said before, it's a Fiat 6C 1500.
I read on a magazine that the Alfa 2500 in Essen was the 915516.
Here is another photo: look around the air intakes, there are signs of some works.
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Last edited by PG1964; 12-27-2009 at 11:49 AM.
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-14-2010, 01:25 PM
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To understand better the Bertone style, i want to show you this cabriolet:
it's a Fiat 2800, one-off, delivered in 1943 to Giovanni Lurani Cernuschi, Earl of Calvenzano, engineer, journalist and famous gentleman driver. He was one of the founders of the Scuderia Ambrosiana and he took part to 1000miglia eleven times.
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-14-2010, 03:12 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PG1964 View Post
To understand better the Bertone style, i want to show you this cabriolet:
it's a Fiat 2800, one-off, delivered in 1943 to Giovanni Lurani Cernuschi, Earl of Calvenzano, engineer, journalist and famous gentleman driver. He was one of the founders of the Scuderia Ambrosiana and he took part to 1000miglia eleven times.
A great looking car. Are you implying that the nose/grille of the car shown in Essen possibly is not Bertone style? If so, who else could have designed this nose/grille?

BTW: John de Boer recalled that 915516 was listed in an old 6C 2500 register (thanks, John!). I looked it up and found this description in the Sep-78 newsletter (which seems to be consistent with the car shown in Essen):
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-Ruedi
[SIZE="1"]'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, the car in my avatar, sold as resto project to Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).[/SIZE]
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 01-14-2010, 03:23 PM
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Absolutely not.
The 915516 is a Bertone designed by Revelli de Beaumont such as the Fiat 2800. IMHO.
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