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post #16 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-22-2009, 04:11 AM
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Dear dretceterini:

Thank you for your reply.

I am sorry to hear about your legal troubles. Of course, I do not know anything about your allegations of defamation of character or your legal case. I do not know about the Disco Volante story either. All I can say is no one is infallible.

While we have met at some point I do not know who you are from the postings. What I do know is that we share is a common passion for Alfa Romeo and in this case a difference of opinion. Perhaps its best to leave it at that.

Kind regards,

Mark Gessler
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post #17 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-22-2009, 06:15 AM
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I, on the other hand think the car is absolutely stunning! I applaud Mark's effort to bring to life a model that almost no one living has ever seen. After all the effort and investment that the reconstruction entailed, he then spends more time, money and effort to bring the car out so the public can see, hear and feel a tribute to one of Alfa's great race cars. I'm sure if any impressionable kids got the chance to hear, see and even ride in the car, they could become Alfa fans for life.

To those negative posters (Dr? what medical school did you graduate from?) you're negative behavior reinforces the attitude some younger fans have about old cars and their owners.

Alan Frick(I'm in the old guy camp)
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post #18 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-22-2009, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by africk View Post
I, on the other hand think the car is absolutely stunning! I applaud Mark's effort to bring to life a model that almost no one living has ever seen. After all the effort and investment that the reconstruction entailed, he then spends more time, money and effort to bring the car out so the public can see, hear and feel a tribute to one of Alfa's great race cars. I'm sure if any impressionable kids got the chance to hear, see and even ride in the car, they could become Alfa fans for life.

To those negative posters (Dr? what medical school did you graduate from?) you're negative behavior reinforces the attitude some younger fans have about old cars and their owners.

Alan Frick(I'm in the old guy camp)
Alan:

I have been around Alfas since I was born in 1947. I was born in Geneva, Switzerland, moved to England when I was 3, and to Chicago when I was 7. Got my BA from Northwestern in 1968.

My parents moved to Los Angeles, and from 1968 until 1997, spent 75% of my time in Europe and 25% of my time in the US.

My father passed away in 1980 (he was a panel-beater for the pre-war Mercedes GP car team, but had to get out because he was Jewish.

My mother was a cousin to Count Johnny Lurani, the famous racer and automotive journalist. My mother passed away in Los Angeles in 1999 from senile dementia after living 4 years with nothing but a feeding tube in her stomach, and that's why I returned to the US in 1997.


I was one of the first members ever of AROC, having joined with my father to the Chicago chapter in 1958!!

I do not have a medical degree, but I do have THREE PhDs...Economics from London School in England, Mechanical Engineering from Cambridge in England, and Theoretical Physics from Cambridge in England. I then taught at Cambridge at the post-graduate level for over 20 years, and retired in 1997. Hawking was my boss for over 20 years!

I am simply trying to present FACTS....anything other than that is simply one man's opinion. Feel free to disagree.

In fact Olczyk (Buy or sell a classic car : Ferrari, Maserati, Pagani... and look for chassis numbers) actually sued me and others for posting negative comments about his TZ book and won a judgement. It has taken 6 years to get a "set-aside", and now I am suing HIM for $10M for deformation of character. It will probably be another 10 years before I get anything; if at all...

If you have any other questions about my knowledge or anything else, for that matter, PM me...

Dott.Ing.Stuart Schaller
Portland, Oregon

Last edited by dretceterini; 07-22-2009 at 06:46 AM.
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post #19 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-22-2009, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
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I, on the other hand think the car is absolutely stunning! I applaud Mark's effort to bring to life a model that almost no one living has ever seen. After all the effort and investment that the reconstruction entailed, he then spends more time, money and effort to bring the car out so the public can see, hear and feel a tribute to one of Alfa's great race cars. I'm sure if any impressionable kids got the chance to hear, see and even ride in the car, they could become Alfa fans for life.
I totally agree with Alan. The car is incredible, as is the story as to how it came about

Bob Cess
'59 Giulietta Sprint
'60 Giulietta Berlina
'62 Giulietta Spider
'69 Spider Veloce
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post #20 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-22-2009, 07:10 AM
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I do not have a medical degree, but I do have THREE PhDs...Economics from London School in England, Mechanical Engineering from Cambridge in England, and Theoretical Physics from Cambridge in England. I then taught at Cambridge at the post-graduate level for over 20 years, and retired in 1997. Hawking was my boss for over 20 years!

Dott.Ing.Stuart Schaller
Portland, Oregon
Mr. Schaller:

I have a good friend who is a long-time member of the Department of Applied Mathematics and Theoretical Physics at the University of Cambridge, the department in which Stephen Hawking is also a faculty member. My friend has no recollection of you ever having been associated with that department, nor can he find, in the Cambridge Record, information that you have ever been associated with the University of Cambridge in any capacity.. To resolve this mystery, perhaps you could scan and post your University of Cambridge diplomas.

Bob Cess
'59 Giulietta Sprint
'60 Giulietta Berlina
'62 Giulietta Spider
'69 Spider Veloce
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post #21 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-22-2009, 08:01 AM
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Stu, "ugly" is an opinion, not a fact. My point was simply, instead of eliciting a negative comment, maybe we should be thankful that somebody went to the trouble of recreating an amazing Alfa artifact and then sharing it with the public (and taking the trouble to tell us it's history).

The resume wasn't neccessary, and I wasn't trying to get personal. Good luck on the lawsuit. Olzyk declared one of my cars a fake a few years ago.
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post #22 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-22-2009, 08:12 AM
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Guys, please don't let this thread go off-topic too much: I see it as an absolute exception to the rule that an owner of such a rare car joins the BB and takes the time to provide information and answer questions. Please don't give him the impression we're a bunch of lunatics and/or that we're wasting his time. Maybe Stu's background can be discussed elsewhere?

-Ruedi
[SIZE="1"]'63 2600 Touring Spider (AR 191437, the car that started the 2000/2600 International Register, reassembly in progress)
ex-'65 2600 SZ (AR 856043, the car in my avatar, sold as resto project to Austria)
Maintainer of a private 2600 SZ register (not the one in the Netherlands).[/SIZE]
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post #23 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-23-2009, 12:31 PM
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Comparing the bodies.

Hello members,

The book 'Alfa Romeo 6C2500' written by Angelo Tito Anselmi and published by Editorale Domus in February 1993, contains information and a couple of pictures of a Tipo 256 on the pages 193, 200 and 201.

In the book 'Alfa Romeo, le vetture di produzione 1910 - 2007' written by d' Amico and Tabucchi and published in 2007 by Giorgio Nada, the 6C2500 book is mentioned as the reference for their information on the pages 280 and 281.

People here mentioned # 915.080 as the chassis Marks car is built on. Mark, is that correct or am I wrong?
I can not find chassis # 915.080 in the 6C2500 book. Please correct me if I am wrong or if the chassisnumber is found elsewhere in Alfa Romeo or other documentation. If I am correct, it still doesn't mean that chassis 915.080 wasn't produced.

It's great that some people attempt to recreate the original car so that we can all enjoy it and look at the shape that coachbuilders created back in the thirties. A debate about accuracy will probably be standard if it concerns recreations. Have a look at the pictures in the 6C2500 book and see for yourself how the three vehicles mentioned in this thread compare to the cars which are pictured in the books.

Ciao, Olaf

Olaf Roeten a.k.a. Zagato_Olaf, Bussum, The Netherlands

Last edited by Zagato_Olaf; 07-23-2009 at 02:59 PM. Reason: spelling and additional info
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post #24 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-23-2009, 08:35 PM
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Hi Mark. Fellow VSCCA member here. Thanks for posting info about the car, I think it looks great. Bring it up to Equinox in August!

Cris
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post #25 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-25-2009, 08:47 AM
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Hi Chris:

I will look at the schedule. Mt. Equinox has been on my list for years ... just the timing issues with kids schools, etc. I will have another look and see if it can be done. Thanks!

Kind regards,

Mark Gessler
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post #26 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-25-2009, 08:56 AM
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Dear Olaf:

I have just returned to my office this weekend. I will respond as soon as possible to your query. The long and short of it is that the chassis was identified (rediscovered) in 1993 after the Anselmi book was published. The "official records" for theses chassis were destroyed during the war. What exists today is an assembly of what is known from surviving records, physical evidence (e.g., chassis) and the like. As for the the other reference (Tabucchi) I will have a look there as well ... my thought is that no update was done from the reference of Anselmi (1993). More on this after I get caught up after being gone for 10 days. All for now ...

Kind regards,

Mark Gessler
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post #27 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-25-2009, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by africk View Post
Stu, "ugly" is an opinion, not a fact. My point was simply, instead of eliciting a negative comment, maybe we should be thankful that somebody went to the trouble of recreating an amazing Alfa artifact and then sharing it with the public (and taking the trouble to tell us it's history).

The resume wasn't neccessary, and I wasn't trying to get personal. Good luck on the lawsuit. Olzyk declared one of my cars a fake a few years ago.
I only meant ugly in the sense that I think the car Raoul had is substantially more accurate. No offense intended...
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post #28 of 35 (permalink) Old 07-26-2009, 01:26 PM
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Dear Olaf:

I have just returned to my office this weekend. I will respond as soon as possible to your query. The long and short of it is that the chassis was identified (rediscovered) in 1993 after the Anselmi book was published. The "official records" for theses chassis were destroyed during the war. What exists today is an assembly of what is known from surviving records, physical evidence (e.g., chassis) and the like. As for the the other reference (Tabucchi) I will have a look there as well ... my thought is that no update was done from the reference of Anselmi (1993). More on this after I get caught up after being gone for 10 days. All for now ...

Kind regards,

Mark Gessler
Dear Mark,

Thank you for your reply. I am looking forward to hearing more!

Ciao! Olaf

Olaf Roeten a.k.a. Zagato_Olaf, Bussum, The Netherlands
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post #29 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 05:11 PM
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Mark, I'm hoping your planning on bringing your fabulous car to the Cortile again on July 24-25 2010 at the PVGP. I will say that we had a tremendous number of very complimentary comments about this car at the Cortile in 2009.

Perhaps it is best to borrow the japanese term in these circumstance: Genchi Genbutsu

Bernard Martin
Managing Directorre
"The Cortile"
Italian Car Show
Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix
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post #30 of 35 (permalink) Old 01-23-2010, 02:29 PM
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I am the owner of the above mentioned vehicle which was displayed at the Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix this weekend. It has been shown only twice before in the US ... at the Amelia Island and St Michael's (MD) Concours in 2008. I brought it to Pittsburgh this past weekend mainly for the benefit of the BMW Club as BMW was the honored marque. As many of you know, this design was also the basis for the 328 Coupe which is the most famed BMW of the pre-war period.

I wish the original body still existed, but to this point (70 years later) it has never surfaced. I wish we knew which chassis it was matched with ... but we do not. I have reviewed the factory Le Mans records from 1939 and they include every important fact but one ... the chassis number. I have researched the Milan registration number which matches to 915007 an "open car." I am not aware of any credible evidence of a match between a specific serial number and the 1939 Le Mans body. I have more work to do ... and those that know me can attest to my diligence. If you have information I would be most grateful for your help.

This project was an important project for Carlo Felice Bianci Anderloni. He wrote a brief monograph on the subject where he stated his motivation to bring back what has been forever lost. If we were ever to realize this magnificent shape in metal again who better than Ing Anderloni to oversee the project? In this case he engineered and guided the reconstruction as close as he possibly could to the vanished original. On a proper prewar Tipo 256 chassis and drive train.

This was a painstaking project which took years to complete to the standard which is evident when you see the car. In the end Ing Anderloni stated that it was correct to his exacting standards ... an accurate reconstruction of the 1939 Le Mans Berlinetta Coupe. Its the best point of reference I could ask for.

I continue my research on this period and these interesting cars. I have had additional incentive over the years as the former owner of one of the "standard bodied" 328 cars that ran at Le Mans along with the 328 Coupe and Alfa Coupe. Its a tough period for research as much was lost.

For those that are interested ... it is a fantastic driving car. In addition to the shows mentioned above it also took part in the Colorado Grand last year. 1000 miles is a great introduction to the dynamics of this stellar vehicle. Although a short wheel base ... its quite a large car. But it can still be put though the corners with ease. It was comfortable and very "eventable." It was cool in the cabin even on very hot days ... the wind vents in the front when lifted provide adequate ventilation. A delight to look at and joy to drive.

Below you can read the necessarily brief description I provided for the "Italian Cortile" show where it was photographed on Saturday. Later that day it was returned to the paddock after charity runs on the Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix course.

"This is a 1939 Alfa Romeo Tipo 256 with reconstructed aerodynamic berlinetta Touring coachwork. It is the only correct example in existence. The underlying Tipo 256 chassis and drive train were rediscovered in 1993 with postwar cabriolet coachwork of unknown origin. The reconstuction of this highly complex superleggera (super-light) aluminum body was realized through a collaboration between the former head of Carrozzeria Touring, Carlo Felice Bianci Anderloni; master coachbuilder Dino Cognaloto; and rare archive documents provided by Alfa Romeo. The coachwork was completed in Italy in 2003 just prior to Anderloni’s death. It was the famed designer’s final project.

In 1939, Alfa Romeo created this very special aerodynamic design for the Le Mans 24 hour race. The Tipo 256 featured independent suspension; perfect 50/50 weight distribution; and a 6 cylinder 2500 cc un-supercharged race engine tuned by Ferrari for the Alfa Romeo racing organization (Alfa Corse). This is one of approximately a dozen surviving examples of the 1939/40 Alfa Romeo Tipo 256 model. All of the Tipo 256 cars were originally bodied with superleggera bodies by Carrozzeria Touring – but nearly all were spiders (open race cars). Few, if any, are believed to retain their original coachwork as these former race cars were typically rebodied during the WWII to make fast transport for senior German and Italian officers. Unfortunately, the Alfa Romeo production records for these cars were destroyed during the war.

This aerodynamic berlinetta design was both beautiful and extremely advanced for 1939. Vestiges of this seminal design can be seen more than 20 years later in the Corvette split-window coupe, Jaguar E-type coupe and many fastback coupés that followed.

The design also has an important link to BMW – the honored marque of the 2009 Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix. In 1939, BMW management saw the Alfa Romeo berlinetta being built at Carrozzeria Touring and requested a similar body be built for one of their BMW 328 chassis. This famous car won its class at Le Mans in 1939, won the Mille Miglia in 1940, and today is the centerpiece of the BMW museum collection in Munich.

The 1939 Alfa Romeo Tipo 256 Berlinetta Touring is owned by Mark Gessler of Potomac, Maryland."
Missed this one the first time around.

Good expanation.

Glad I saw it.

Bob,
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