air con and idle - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-19-2018, 08:35 AM Thread Starter
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air con and idle

I've used the hand throttle to bump up the idle when the air is on but it's not a great solution. the idle speed varies, doesn't return smoothly, and the compressor goes on and off so the idle goes up and down. I found this on Summitt and it should do the trick. It's rated for 3 amps and the average clutch draws around 4 so I'll put a relay in and switch it from the trinary switch so just the clutch will disengage when rpm's drop below 1800 rpm. This should take another kink out of having aircon on an Alfa.
SUM-830450-1
RPM Activated Switch, Adjustable 1,000 to 9,900 rpm, Each
(Mfr. #: SUM-830450-1)

The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
2017 Giulia Q4
74 GTV restored daily driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-24-2018, 05:34 PM Thread Starter
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The Summit switch left a lot to be desired so I returned it. Contacted the tech guys at Intellitronix and they recommended the 3210 so I've got one of those coming. No reason it shouldn't work.

The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
2017 Giulia Q4
74 GTV restored daily driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-24-2018, 07:57 PM
Subscribed - will be interested in the outcome.

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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-30-2018, 06:26 PM Thread Starter
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I got the Intellitronix switch today and hooked it up the way there tech guy Shawn said and it still doesn't work. I'll call him in the morning and ask him what's what. He did say it should work but the directions said to hook the switched wire (blue) to the ground side of the device but the clutch is grounded through the body of the compressor. Then again they say to use a relay if it draws more than three amps. A clutch normally draws 4 so I used a relay but a relay supplies 12v positive to the device (the clutch) and how could one connect to the ground side of the device? so it appears their directions say two different things. hence the call tomorrow

The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
2017 Giulia Q4
74 GTV restored daily driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-30-2018, 07:41 PM
Rats!

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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-30-2018, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by gigem75 View Post
I got the Intellitronix switch today and hooked it up the way there tech guy Shawn said and it still doesn't work. I'll call him in the morning and ask him what's what. He did say it should work but the directions said to hook the switched wire (blue) to the ground side of the device but the clutch is grounded through the body of the compressor. Then again they say to use a relay if it draws more than three amps. A clutch normally draws 4 so I used a relay but a relay supplies 12v positive to the device (the clutch) and how could one connect to the ground side of the device? so it appears their directions say two different things. hence the call tomorrow
I know you have probably seen this post. Its post 22 in the link.

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/hvac...ml#post7982945

I have the car in my shop doing driveshaft work. I can send you a picture of the cut off switch if you don't have one.

1969 1750 Spider Veloce w/dual webers, 1969 1750 Berlina, 1971 1750 Spider Veloce w/ dual webers, 1985 Spider Veloce 23,000 orig. miles, {Two} 1986 Spider Veloces, 1987 Spider Veloce bought new, 1988 Quadrifoglio, 1991 164S, Plus several more. I think they are breeding.
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I just got 2 more. Now I have a Matta. I must be crazy.

Last edited by Jim G; 04-30-2018 at 09:58 PM.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-01-2018, 03:47 AM
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My Set-up includes the Programmable 123 Ignition. When AC engaged it switch the ignition from curve #1 to curve # 2 that is same as curve 1 except that the idle with additional ignition advance . This is doing the trick and the engine is idle smoothly with AC on.

Ron.C
1975 Giulia gt Junior - 1977 Alfetta GTV
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-01-2018, 09:07 AM
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I know you have probably seen this post. Its post 22 in the link.

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/hvac...ml#post7982945

I have the car in my shop doing driveshaft work. I can send you a picture of the cut off switch if you don't have one.
A clutch disengagement switch - very clever and simple idea! I would be interested in seeing the switch assembly.

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My Set-up includes the Programmable 123 Ignition. When AC engaged it switch the ignition from curve #1 to curve # 2 that is same as curve 1 except that the idle with additional ignition advance . This is doing the trick and the engine is idle smoothly with AC on.
Also a very interesting solution! The 123 programmable as I recall has the 1/2 switching option built in but how does it get triggered?

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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-01-2018, 10:22 PM
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To activate the second ignition curve you need to supply 12V to the yellow wire, so it really simple when you AC on the second curve is activated while AC of the first curve is activated.


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Ron.C
1975 Giulia gt Junior - 1977 Alfetta GTV
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-02-2018, 02:49 AM
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Back in the stone age when carburetors were common, many manufacturers used a device called an idle up solenoid (aka idle stop solenoid, throttle solenoid, etc). When triggered, an adjustable pushrod would mechanically open the throttle just enough so as to maintain the same idle speed when the A/C was on. Very simple and very effective. Summit Racing has them.

On a personal note, given the traffic round these parts, the last thing I'd want to do is have the A/C turn off at idle.

Jim

Series 2 USA 1750 GTV (in Series 1 European clothing)
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-02-2018, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
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At a light or 4 way stop the compressor can turn off but the fans keep running so a minute or two isn't going to make that much difference for me especially since the compressor isn't providing much cooling spinning at 900 rpm anyway.
Either way you'd still need to trigger the idle up solenoid somehow when the AC was on. All the ones I see are grounded through the body of the device just like the AC clutch. I'm open to ideas short of shelling out 300 bucks for a 123.
Thinking out loud here... couldn't you hook the blue wire from the switch to the 85 wire (ground) on the relay which would switch the relay to ground above the set rpm which would supply the 12v to the clutch and then when it goes below the set rpm cut the ground which shuts off the compressor? that just might work???

The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
2017 Giulia Q4
74 GTV restored daily driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider

Last edited by gigem75; 05-02-2018 at 06:11 PM.
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-03-2018, 06:10 AM Thread Starter
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SHAZAM!!!! It works!! In a way the window switch is better than the standard switch that just turns a device on and off at one set rpm. The window switch allows you to turn the device off at a set higher rpm as well as off when the rpm falls below the first set rpm. Now if I'm in a drag race the compressor will shut off at 5500 giving me back the hp. Besides who in their right mind would cruise at 5500 or higher in 5th gear with a 410 rear end with the air con on? So with the relay I'm switching the ground to run the clutch. Amazing

The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
2017 Giulia Q4
74 GTV restored daily driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-03-2018, 10:09 AM
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I posted this late last night. But I guess it didn't stick.

Here are the pictures of the a/c clutch cut off switch.
Attached Images
  
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1969 1750 Spider Veloce w/dual webers, 1969 1750 Berlina, 1971 1750 Spider Veloce w/ dual webers, 1985 Spider Veloce 23,000 orig. miles, {Two} 1986 Spider Veloces, 1987 Spider Veloce bought new, 1988 Quadrifoglio, 1991 164S, Plus several more. I think they are breeding.
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I just got 2 more. Now I have a Matta. I must be crazy.
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-03-2018, 10:29 AM Thread Starter
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Pretty slick, I like it! The rpm switch has a digital tach which tells me my tach is WAY off several hundred at idle and over 500 at higher rpms. I didn't realize it until now but just the fans draw enough to drop the rpms by 200 at idle. Either way isn't it nice not having to fiddle with the hand throttle and having the motor die or over rev at a stop sign. This is big, really big
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The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
2017 Giulia Q4
74 GTV restored daily driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider
gigem75 is offline  
post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-07-2018, 06:04 AM
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Pretty slick, I like it! The rpm switch has a digital tach which tells me my tach is WAY off several hundred at idle and over 500 at higher rpms. I didn't realize it until now but just the fans draw enough to drop the rpms by 200 at idle. Either way isn't it nice not having to fiddle with the hand throttle and having the motor die or over rev at a stop sign. This is big, really big<img src="http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smilie" class="inlineimg" />
Ok, I'm confused - which system worked?

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