hydrocarbon refrigerant - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-09-2014, 04:47 PM
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Right, Oz! Im with you all the way. Those articles , I read a few years ago. (dont remember exactly) but they may mention the famous (in auto ac circles anyway) AD Little studies done on HC's finding the risks are so miniscule- so remote for a fire/'explosion" it was like 1/500,000,000 cars . Or maybe the A.D.Little research was a seperate paper. Oh well, cant remember al the research p[apers anymore.

naysayers/opponents claim Little was 'paid off" to produce favorable results. If one cant trust a prestigious firm like AD Little, who can one trust- DuPont??.

Anyway, glad you posted the info......

87 spider veloce
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-09-2014, 04:52 PM
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ES12 works very well. However I would not use it unless my system sealed without leaks, especially in the interior. There is a scent (pine I believe) that is part of the formula.
Right, John. That scent is actually the best indicator for leaks. I chased an elusive leak on a Honda civic for months- ended up I smelled the pine "seepage" from the low psi line- it was seeping through it!! Stuck my nose right on it and it was a slam dunk. True, some tubes are so hard to reach your nose cant get down there, LOL...but many times the pine can be noticed even a few feet from the engine bay, then you go from there to search.

. Slow leaks are the hardest to find. Most detectors (even the 100 ppm ones) will never find them. Pine is a great idea/useful tool.

87 spider veloce

Last edited by Joe Papa Sr; 09-09-2014 at 04:54 PM.
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-09-2014, 07:26 PM
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Anyway, glad you posted the info......
No problem. As you suggest, the manufacturers of R134a are not going to be happy to have their monopoly reduced. It must have been a nice little earner for them. I like the way some air-conditioning guys will tell you that R134a is fine in the old R12 systems when it quite patently is not. I heard that here in Australia R134a is being phased out and replaced with hydrocarbon based gas anyway.

Current Alfas
2010 159 ti 1750 TBI sedan (red).
2004 GT 3.2 V6 (Stromboli Grey).
2008 159 TI Sportwagon 2.4 JTDM (Stromboli Grey).
1987 75 3 litre (red). My first 75 and now my son's.
2000 156 2 litre Twin Spark, ( Cosmos Blu metallic), my daughter's car.
2000 156 Monza Twin Spark, (Cosmos Blue metallic), son’s girlfiend’s car.
1999 GTV 3 litre 24 valve V6, metallic black, (son’s new car).

Non Alfa
1988 Range Rover Classic Highline 3.9 V8

Past Alfas
1989 75 3 litre, written off by runaway van.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (black), now sold & living in Newcastle NSW.
1990 75 3 litre Potenziata (grey, sadly deceased due to fire).
1982 GTV 2 litre, red, (daughter's first Alfa)
2 x 1992 164s, (1 red, 1 grey).
2 x 1988 33s, (both red).
1985 GTV 2 litre, (white).
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-10-2014, 04:25 PM
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No problem. As you suggest, the manufacturers of R134a are not going to be happy to have their monopoly reduced. It must have been a nice little earner for them. I like the way some air-conditioning guys will tell you that R134a is fine in the old R12 systems when it quite patently is not. I heard that here in Australia R134a is being phased out and replaced with hydrocarbon based gas anyway.
Wow- I have not heard! Good to know a first world country is using "uncommon sense" when it comes to auto ac!! Maybe it will encourage the rest of us dumb a++es to join that crowd!! Yes, r134a has its days limited with the global warming potential it has- at least politically, HC's have way less GW potential. And way less "toxic". And companies like benz abandoned CO2 recently - no worky- too much psi needed, so too much HP robbed by engine.

hehe- just added a can of ES12 to one of my older cars- what a breeze. Stay cool, OZ! (hope yous done get another one of those heat waves like they had down there in last january.........was visiting melbourne/Sidney/tasmania in february- just after it broke.........lucky.

87 spider veloce

Last edited by Joe Papa Sr; 09-10-2014 at 04:27 PM.
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