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post #31 of 98 (permalink) Old 07-06-2011, 06:42 PM
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Now we are talking .

The other option, though it is a compromise, is to run the compressor at the rear of the gearbox. I'm not sure if there would be enough room there but if there was then it would be completely out of engine bay sight, but of course it would only work when you are moving ... which is the compromise and thus probably makes it a silly and pointless suggestion .
Pete

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post #32 of 98 (permalink) Old 07-07-2011, 07:08 AM Thread Starter
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Interesing thoughts, I'm not sure where one would/could put that unit?

The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
2017 Giulia Q4
74 GTV restored daily driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider
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post #33 of 98 (permalink) Old 07-07-2011, 11:22 AM
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Electricity 101 ?

Please, somebody who remembers VA = Watts explain why an this electric compresor won't work on a 12 V system. Anybody, anybody. . .

I remember it this way:
120 V at 20 amps = 2400 watts, or twice a normal hair dryer. This is what the EV (electric vehicle) compressor uses at startup according to the spec sheet.
To get the same watts from a 12 v car system is about 200 amps.

Where did I go wrong in my calculation??

Now back to the original conversation on how to make this AC system work when mounted in the rear.

Note: I have just violated a promise I made to an electric eng professor years ago, that if he gave me a C I would NEVER use anything I should have learned in that class!!

Paul Blankenship AROSC
76 Alfetta GT -Track and daily driver; 88 Milano - a continuing project

Last edited by sidewaysalfa; 07-07-2011 at 11:39 AM.
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post #34 of 98 (permalink) Old 07-07-2011, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
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I'm no electrical engineer but add up all the power requirements, lights, wipers, fan, fuel pump, ect and then add the electric compressor, fans etc and I don't think the alternaltor could keep the battery charged? Proly would need at least a 70 or 80 amp alternator?

The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
2017 Giulia Q4
74 GTV restored daily driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider
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post #35 of 98 (permalink) Old 07-07-2011, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gigem75 View Post
I'm no electrical engineer but add up all the power requirements, lights, wipers, fan, fuel pump, ect and then add the electric compressor, fans etc and I don't think the alternaltor could keep the battery charged? Proly would need at least a 70 or 80 amp alternator?
Being a little cheeky here, but given that a fair amount of the time Alfa lights, wipers, fans, etc aren't working properly anyway, there should be plenty of available power . Besides which, shouldn't we all have an 80 amp alternator so we can drive our massive "doof-doof" sound systems?

Seriously though, assuming you can get sufficient amps from a 12 volt system to drive an electric compressor, it should be physically possible (don't know about feasible) to mount the compressor in the trunk as well... but leave the condensor at the front of the engine bay.

Now: 1968 Alfa Romeo GT 1300 Junior - Restoration Completed 2016
Previously: 1974 Alfasud TI - first car
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post #36 of 98 (permalink) Old 07-07-2011, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njh1964 View Post
... but leave the condensor at the front of the engine bay.
There is lots of room under the rear seat on these cars. Maybe you could put a condensor there with an air scoop? ... and thus install the complete unit in that space. The only thing in the boot would have to be hoses up to the rear parcel shelf.

I don't know just trying to come up with a solution that is as close as possible to being invisible.

The first thing is to garage these cars so they are nice and cool when you start the drive.
The second is to insulate the roof/ceiling when you have the hood lining out.
The third is to always park under cover to keep them cool or let them cool down.
Pete

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post #37 of 98 (permalink) Old 07-07-2011, 04:27 PM
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A 12v car battery will last couple of minutes and will
not even cover the start up power.
So you need at least a couple of batterys in the trunk as
well.
Useless discusion.

No more Alfa's for now, maybe one more in the near future.
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post #38 of 98 (permalink) Old 07-07-2011, 05:14 PM Thread Starter
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Well let's hope that with Wes's HP spica, motronics, cams, porting, headers, msd, and rml dizzy I'll have enough hp left over to get off the line with the compressor on she sure does now even with a 410 rear end. That motor is going in regardless and it will have a compressor hanging on it, don't like it but at 103 in the shade and the car being a daily driver (she ain't no trailer queen) that is my primary mode of transportation I'm hoping it will all work out. All new components and didn't have to mess up my original looking dash/consol. Let's pray for cold air.

The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
2017 Giulia Q4
74 GTV restored daily driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider
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post #39 of 98 (permalink) Old 07-10-2011, 10:26 AM Thread Starter
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Sure is a shame to take out a perfectly running motor and I do mean perfect (that thing runs and idles the best I've ever had) for all this but I couldn't get the plugs out of the head and that @#%!%% rear seal is leaking more and more. Strange thing is that on the spider, same seal, same installation technique, same everything, except the spider one is dry as a bone, no leaks, drips, nothing? So I can only hope this being a different motor it will not leak. I was concerned about whether or not the headers would fit, all the measurements said they would and with the motor out I was able to fit the headers and #1 makes it with room to spare. Tightening the nut may be a different story but it'll get on by hook or crook Ordered some isolation rubber mounts from McMasterCarr (I love that place) for the condensor and it will be connected at the top and bottom. Seriously thinking about buying the crimping tool from Nostalgic Air, it's 200 bucks but I figure that I can resell it for 150 and I'd be even with what someone would charge me for crimping the hoses, ahead actually when you condider having to take them on and off again make several trips bla bla bla. So if anyone is considering any job that involves crimping lots of ac hoses I'll have a crimping tool, heck it could pass from member to member as far as I'm concerned.






The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
2017 Giulia Q4
74 GTV restored daily driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider
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post #40 of 98 (permalink) Old 07-11-2011, 05:55 PM Thread Starter
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pulled the trigger on the crimping tool so I'll have one for sale
drier mounted, waiting on iso mounts to mount the compressor, hoses have to be crimped on the vise and need to be installed first But I'll figure it out, I hope. Everything is together, I thought running the hoses would be the hardest but after a test fit it looks pretty straightforward. The hose clamp on the quibo is in there just as an easy way to get the driveshaft back on, it works great, fyi Basically getting the condensor mounted and hoses crimped, install motor, hook up hoses, and charge off into the sunset,








The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
2017 Giulia Q4
74 GTV restored daily driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider
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post #41 of 98 (permalink) Old 07-12-2011, 04:13 PM
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Is the compressor bracket something you made or a genuine Alfa Romeo made bracket? Sure is solid looking, but also that compressor looks pretty large and thus heavy.

What are the extra 2 holes for, above where the compressor mounts?

You are doing a great job. While I want to keep my car 100% original and because I live in Sydney I very much doubt I will ever drive her to work and back (because parking at work would have to be under cover and secure) this is one modification I might end up having to make. The only difference I would do, as my car is carburetted, is mount the compressor down under the distributor so it is less visible (which to me is important). Yes I've given up the idea of running it via non-engine ideas.
Pete
ps: I feel sorry for the motor that has lost it's home ... . Hopefully you will find another so it can keep doing what it obviously likes doing and that is running.

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post #42 of 98 (permalink) Old 07-12-2011, 04:56 PM
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compressor mounting

I agree that Gigem is doing a great job. I am going in a slightly different direction, as Pete mentions. I have all the original style Alfa brackets but I chose to put the compressor under the distributor. It's tight. I had to take the pulley off the compressor an put it on the lathe to give me more space. A Junior Z has very little room inside the car and I didn't want to move the battery out of the engine bay. The Sandens are relatively low vibration compressors so I think my brackets will suffice.

Gigem, thanks for the tip on the condenser, it should arrive in the next couple days. Oh, I might be a candidate for the crimping tool. I have a good hose place close by but I'm planning on doing another car in a few months. Maybe best to do the hoses myself.

Keep the pics coming.

Dan
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post #43 of 98 (permalink) Old 07-12-2011, 07:36 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks very much, slow but steady, good to step back and think about it and cool off too! It's a standard Alfa mount as it goes in the front plugs and came off a 77 spider. Got the engine in today and wouldn't cha know it the drier is to close to the compressor so I'll have to relocate the drier but that's no biggie. Did get the new motor cranked up today and took out the condensor to get some break in time on the motor since I'm waitng on mounts and the crimper. I did get a chance to see how the hoses will be run and mocked up. I wish I could say the new motor fired right up but we had a loose nut behind the wheel. When I was switching out spica pumps and using the injectors and lines from the original car I got all the brackets on and the injectors tight but must have gotten distracted because I failed to tighten the lines down onto the injectors. It would try to start and the gas around the fittings was a dead giveaway and a 17mm end wrench confirmed they were loose. A simple tighten and she fired right up. I guess there are pros and cons to location of the compressor. With it on top it is a short run from the discharge to the top of the condensor. The fittings do stick up a fair amount from the compressor and as stated it's pretty tight down there not to mention the charge port is right there on top. Course you can put that anywhere you want but my fittings have them on the compressor fittings. I was right about that #1 top header stud, getting that nut on was fun . I did want to get the mount remade in aluminum and polish it but that didn't happen. Maybe this winter. good luck on ya'lls projects! I have no idea what those holes are for. The 77 had an air pump so maybe something to do with that?

The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
2017 Giulia Q4
74 GTV restored daily driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider

Last edited by gigem75; 07-12-2011 at 07:43 PM.
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post #44 of 98 (permalink) Old 07-15-2011, 09:50 AM Thread Starter
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Well we're pretty much done, just waiting on the crimping tool to get here. Everything installed and wired up. The photos do not reflect the finished project in that the wires will be wrapped and the shroud will be on. Leaving the hood off because the radiator will have to come back out when I hook uup the condenser. I'd like to digress for a moment on the joys of Alfa ownership and working on them. As I've said I built the new motor to get the orginal engine number back in the car. Although the engine in there runs fantastic I couldn't get the plugs out to install the compressor and it had a rear main seal leak. When I orginally restored the car I had replaced everything from trailing arm bushings, rear bearings forward. When I go to put the new motor in just to be sure I put the alternator (it only has 34,000 miles on it) on the spider just to make sure it works. It worked fine so it goes on. The last thing I wanted was to have to take the compressor off to get a bad alternator out. So we all know I forgot to tighten up the injector nuts on the manifold so I had to track that down. Do that and the motor fires right up. Problem is I do not have an alternator light when I turn the igniton on? O crap! I spend a half a day putting other alternators on, not actually on but hooked up and grounded, voltage regulators, checking voltages everywhere. I'ts putting 13.6 volts to the battery at 2500 rpm. I'm really stumped now. Let's now go back to the original restoration when I said I replaced everything, that even included every light bulb. After testing everything I can three times I come to the conclusion that it has to be the bulb. Sure enough i take the pod off and remove the light plug and put 12 volts to it and no lighty. Put a new one in (I always buy more than I need on stuff like that) for situations exactly like this. Put the new bulb in and resolve a half days work. That bulb was less than 2 years old That has got to be one for the books

I mounted the condenser from the top and bottom with the isolation mounts shown in the photo. The top has the ones shown, the bottom has four bigger ones bolted to an aluminum bar bolted to existing brackets on each side. I also did put a switch on the fan so I can turn it on irregardless of whether or not the compressor is on. Thanks for the suggestion, this old dog can listen Now I must go for a engine break in drive per WesI's procedure on our nice back county roads with the hood still off so not to many people will see me. We call them FM roads in Texas as in Farm to Market. Hopefully it will be the last drive without AIRCON!










The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
2017 Giulia Q4
74 GTV restored daily driver
71 Berlina in 2L restored driver
the ones that got away:
1959 750 series Giulietta Spider Veloce
1962 Giulietta Spider normale
1965 Giulia Sprint normale
1972 GTV
1974 GTV
1974 GTV
1977 Spider
1974 Spider

Last edited by gigem75; 07-15-2011 at 10:04 AM.
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post #45 of 98 (permalink) Old 07-15-2011, 11:56 AM
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re: alternator power
I gave up and installed a Milano alternator. $100 well spent as the car has 12.5 volts with: 2 cooling fans, 1 compressor, 1 A/C blower and headlights when RPM are above 1500. About 11-12v at 800rpm idle with that stuff on. 13v at idle with no a/c stuff on.
With the OEM and all that stuff on I could only get to 12.5v at 3000rmp. Idle was only 9-10v and the radio would not work.
Good luck and enjoy the cool air.

Paul Blankenship AROSC
76 Alfetta GT -Track and daily driver; 88 Milano - a continuing project

Last edited by sidewaysalfa; 07-15-2011 at 12:03 PM.
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