AC Installation in a GTV 2000 Part I - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #16 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-13-2011, 03:27 AM Thread Starter
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After much anguish I did manage to find a condenser small enough to fit in front of the radiator. The biggest problem in finding one was in getting one that was not too tall. I sourced a superflow (parallel) condenser (Part Number: 54-1214) from NostalgicAir (12 X 14 Superflow R-134a Condenser - Unpainted Aluminum). This condenser takes R134a refrigerant and will be more efficient than the original tube and fin design that was original to the 1974 GTV AC installation.
  • Core size: 279.4 mm tall x 339.7 mm wide x 26.9 mm thick (at the end tanks)
  • Overall condenser size: 304.8 mm tall x 393.7 mm wide
I also sourced a 10" curved blade electric fan for the condenser. This fan attaches to the front of the condenser as a pusher fan. The fan has a 254 mm diameter (10") and is 57.15 mm thick. It draws 8.0 Amps and is 800 CFM. Both the condenser and the gold metal plate of the fan were painted black so they did not draw the eye when looking at the front of the car.

Together the condenser and electric 10" fan weighed 2.2kg.
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post #17 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 10:28 AM
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I'm in starting block to order this condenser because I am able to confirm my installation is not efficient. I have a SD7H15 for compressor and the original condenser with R134a and the original fan mounted on the water pump. The very good news is cruising in A/C equiped Bertone is simply marvelous, I enjoy to drive my car when I used to be completely moisted in my car... BUT the bad news are not coming from the condenser because my binary pressostat doesn't cut it but it is so heat that's it's hard to cool the radiator especially when I drive on the highway, in fifth gear @ 3000 rpm because the compressor turn faster, so more exchange of R134a and the water pump turn faster too and my radiator have some difficulties to find fresh air with this piece/block of heat. the result is 212F running in a special & long coast mount on the highway.

So the superflow condenser will certainly let passing the fresh air through it when the car is running in comparaison of this real block which are the original condenser, even more if there is pulsed air by fan for static position at idle.

So I will certainly follow your installation but I would really like to see this step of your work.

Do you think you will mount the condenser soon ?

Thanks for your threads, I would like to do it the same but I already did this on my french bulletin board and don't have the force to do it again in english !

Good job !

Last edited by haazed; 05-24-2011 at 10:47 AM.
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post #18 of 46 (permalink) Old 05-28-2011, 12:40 AM Thread Starter
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I removed the front grill and slid the 10" electric fan into the cavity in front of the radiator. This condenser is too large to be inserted in this way and because I did not wish to drain all the coolant from my car (PITA) I unscrewed the top radiator mounts and gently pulled the top of the radiator toward the car. This gave me an inch of space to slide the condenser into the space between the radiator and the front grill.

I sourced some generic L - shaped galvanised brackets from my local hardware store and then bolted this to the underside of the panel labelled 'A' in the picture below. These were the same brackets that i used to install the radiator fan

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/air-...0-part-ii.html

I then bolted the top of the condenser to this bracket. The condenser was also secured at its bottom to the two brackets that were part of the chassis that Alfa left us with to install oil coolers, condensors etc - thank you Alfa. This has shown itself to be quite sturdy over about 80km of driving but it may be prudent to retighten the bots every major service.

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Resonably invisible if I don't say so myself. Painting it black was a sensible idea although I did learn that you can't paint galvanised metal very easily at all so the brackets (which are thankfully not in line of sight) retain their metalic finish.

This will restrict air flow to the radiator however being winter over here it is unlikely that I will know how well my cooling system performs until next summer. The car now has two electric fans: Radiator 12" puller fan and condenser 10" pusher fan.

Last edited by WA-Alfa; 06-10-2011 at 09:37 AM.
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post #19 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-13-2011, 01:41 PM
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Good progress, impressive. I'm way behind you but trying..... I have the same compressor mount that goes in the plugs in the head but the back mount bolts to the the top two exhuast manifold studs in a "C" shape. Your bracket that extends down to the alternator mout seems a much better solution especially for me since the headers I have don't give me enought room to get the bracket between the studs and the exhaust. Do you or does anyone know where I might find one of those. I'm seriously looking at the classicautoair package shelf unit as there just isn't room under the dash without the cutting involved. Their complete unit with compresssor, hoses, airbox, hardware is right a a grand US and looks like a good quality unit.

The passenger seat is 15 miles an hour faster than the drivers seat.

currently
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the ones that got away:
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1962 Giulietta Spider normale
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post #20 of 46 (permalink) Old 06-14-2011, 01:11 AM Thread Starter
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Unfortunatley, those brackets took me a very long time to source and I only managed to find them from people off this forum. If you post a listing on the Wanted page you'll probably get a response eventually but you may need to wait many months before you have success. Then again maybe you'll get lucky and find one straight away. Usually there is someone somewhere who is trying to remove their AC unit and maybe looking for a little bit of quick cash.

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post #21 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-20-2011, 04:39 AM
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I'm following this with interest! After a break from the car rebuild I am now stripping out the engine bay and am taking care to see what mods can be done to the air con system on my GTV.
For interest, attached is a a photo of the original system still in place in the engine bay.
My issue is the wiring which appears to have been put in by a monkey but I will get there....
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GTV 2000 - 1972 - Slow progress but now prepping engine bay for mods before paint....
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post #22 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-20-2011, 04:57 AM
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You will also spot that the battery tray has been completely ruined. I would like to fit a smaller compressor but may not get one that is a direct replacement.


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GTV 2000 - 1972 - Slow progress but now prepping engine bay for mods before paint....
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post #23 of 46 (permalink) Old 07-20-2011, 06:21 AM
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I trust your persistance will pay off when we hit summer this year.

If if works well the cost involved will seem minor compared to the extra enjtyment these creature comforts will bring. It would be interesting to see your installation, if you would like to meet send me a PM.

Regards
Tim

Tim
1975 105 GTV 2000

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post #24 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-02-2012, 11:49 AM
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Garage
well done but WHAT A ROYAL PAIN IN The butt!
Rob

Thanks,

Rob from New Hampshire. (Robnh)

Current line up: 76 Alfetta Sedan Euro 1.8L, 88 Milano Verde, 88 Milano Platinum Auto, 1992 164L Automatic

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post #25 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-12-2012, 05:26 AM Thread Starter
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I know and I still haven't finished yet
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post #26 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-12-2012, 07:30 AM
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Did you ever get the photo of the pipework inside the car?

Should get the engine into my car in a few weeks time and then I'm sorting out the AC pipework. Once that is done I'll whip the engine back out and then I'll finish the paintwork in the engine bay.....


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post #27 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-12-2012, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry,

Before I begin let me just remind readers of this thread that I sourced the evaporator box from California in the US.

it's been a hellish last few weeks at work but anyways here are the photos. Now you can see two outlet pipes here and each has a cover, one black and one orange. The one with an orange cover is the expansion valve. In the second photo you can see the outlet pipe (B) and inlet pipe for the heater tap (A) indicated. I sawed off the fitting for the heater tap and attached a hose that travelled out over the top of the evaporator and exited on the left hand side where it connected to a heater tap that I put on the left-hand side.

You will see there is very little room between the steering column and the outlet with the black cover. To give you an idea exactly how much space there is I measured it from the end of the pipe with the cover off and the steering column - it came to 3.8 cm. The distance from the expansion valve outlet and the column was 7.8 cm. Now there may be room to take the outlet for the pipe with the black cover above the steering column however in this space is the lever for the accelerator and the installation would likely interfere with its free movement - a risky and potentially dangerous outcome.

When I took this to an Alfa mechanic he sought advice from an AC expert who indicated that the evaporator box would probably need to have the hoses exit from the left-hand side on account of the steering column. It occurred to me that it may be possible to take the evaporator out and literally flip the core around such that the hoses exit the left-hand side. This would involve cutting a hole in the left-hand rear of the box and covering over the hole left in the right-hand side. As to what difference it makes to have in the vertical position of the inlet and outlet pipes reversed I don't know - probably not much given the pressures involved. Now the more I look at this problem the more I worry that it may not be possible and that an evaporator for the right-hand car may well have been different in size and proportion to the one that I installed....Hmmmmmmmm

As the evaporator box I installed was from the US it may well be the case that those GTV models with right-hand drive had evaporator boxes suitably modified and that I'm trying to install an evaporator box from a left-hand drive country in a right-hand drive car. Also recall from my earlier threads that I had problem with the scuttel/cowl drain hose being in a location which interfered with the installation of the box. I have no records nor sources from right-hand drive countries about how their AC was installed. So if you are in a right-hand drive country with an original AC installation in your GTV then please let me know. I do note that the fan switch is located on the right-hand side of the box making it a stretch to reach it from the driver's seat.

So this is where my project stalled. I only need to solve this problem and then I will have my AC working. It may be a while before I finally fix it as I am trying to save a bit of money at the moment...but there is no harm in thinking about it...
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post #28 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-13-2012, 12:28 AM Thread Starter
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Ok I think this picture explains some of my problems. Notice scuttel/cowl intake on the top of the evaporator box and how the right-hand side of the box extends further on the right-hand side than the left. The right-hand side extends further to the right to accomodate the outlet tubes.

Solution, cut off the ends and create hardlines to exit straight out the back rather than bend to the right. And/or create an adaptor between the top of the evaporator box and the cowel which moves the box further to the left or right.

humph....Why didin't I see this problem before.....oh well...slowly slowly...I'll get there....
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post #29 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 02:54 AM
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I suspect that new hardline going around the back of unit to the LHS may be the best option. I'll have a look at mine this week and see the space I have. One problem with a 'blank canvas' (ie car fully stripped) is that trial fitting the AC system means that I may not have thought about the space by the steering column - so thanks for pointing this out.


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post #30 of 46 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 03:33 AM Thread Starter
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Keep in mind that the hardlines will need to be well insulated and that this takes up some room...but yes...behind the unit may be the way to go...or straight out the back with no right-hand turn toward the steering column. I'll take some more measurements and let you know if there is room - but may need some time on this one

Here is how I solved the problem for the heater tap. I used a copper fitting from an old broken AC evaporator unit and bolted this onto the outlet hose which had the correct molded bend that I needed. I then bent this back towards the front of the unit and took the heater inlet tube over the top of the box and fitted a heater tap on the left-hand side. The heater works very well and I have had no problems fitting this or in operating the heater tap....I used the earlier style metal bodied heater valve, which suited the earlier heater units that were found in Roundtail Spiders, Sprint GT & GTVs and Giulia Saloons up to about 1968 - classicalfa part # WA019.

As shown here in this very bad photo....

Note in this photo the thick rubber ontop of the area of the box that attaches to the underside of the scuttel/cowl. This is needed to lower the box sufficiently to ensure that the scuttel/cowl drain pipe can fit between the top of the box and the underside of the scuttel/cowl...believe me it's one hell of a squeeze...

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