Cylinder head 1600 info - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 12:14 AM Thread Starter
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Cylinder head 1600 info

Hi everybody,

On the 1600 GTA cylinder head, I noticed a difference between the shapes on the passage studs area. (pictures below)

If I'm not wrong, I know there are 3 originals different production for cylinder head (2 sand cast and 1 diecast). I saw a thread on it.
But, why and what is the real difference between them ? There is a cast number on the front of the cylinder head to differentiate them ?

Thank you for your knowledge ! :-)
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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 07:08 AM
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On the top is the earlier sandcast head and on the bottom is the later die cast head - commonly used on late 1600 and GTA junior. Some of the heads have the part number cast into the the front, some not - some even with 105.11 rather than 105.32. The later die-cast usually have the smaller ports but not necessarily. The early ones are large port unless sleeved.

Also see here: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/gta-...head-ebay.html
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 08:55 AM
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The above matches my observations and experiences. Generally, the die cast large port heads were ported to large port. Those I saw new, (back-in-the-day) were all the same, smaller than the sand cast. I also "believe" again from observed experience, that the sand cast heads might have been only one port size as manufactured. My own is a sand cast (street) head, has the chain tensioner plug stamped "CONDOTTI 37MM" refering to 37mm ports. Race heads from this same period at Ausca had larger ports. I do not know if these were also ported from whatever was cast stock in Italy to larger than 38mm. I do know Ausca sleeved the large port heads smaller.
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Last edited by Gordon Raymond; 02-28-2017 at 09:51 AM. Reason: Typo
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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 01:09 PM
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Exact and complete explanation from Alleggerita and Gordon Raymond. Just to add; sand cast heads were used on early models. They were more suitable for small series and easier to produce with holes and passages in the form. They also resulted more resistant (might be because of slightly major walls) and beard 105.32.01500.00 reference number stamped. 105.11 mentioned by Alleggerita was almost certainly old (TZ) stock. It was 37 mm, sleeved to 33 mm ports (usually), and used with 101.21.03.200.01 camshafts. Die cast heads were without reference number, smaller and less rough in appearance, produced in larger series. The only different heads for GTA were those produced in GB for Angellini. (Presumed quantity of 20). They were sand cast, without any sign on surface and different in shape from Alfa and Autodelta ones
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 07:39 PM
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All the GTA heads I have seen that were marked "CONDOTTI" were sleeved sandcast heads. I have always assumed that this was done by Autodelta rather than the factory. Is your head sleeved, e.g. has reducers fitted, by any chance?

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Originally Posted by Gordon Raymond View Post
My own is a sand cast (street) head, has the chain tensioner plug stamped "CONDOTTI 37MM" refering to 37mm ports. Race heads from this same period at Ausca had larger ports. I do not know if these were also ported from whatever was cast stock in Italy to larger than 38mm. I do know Ausca sleeved the large port heads smaller.
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 07:52 PM
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No, it is 37 mm. It was an Ausca GTA head, and we discussed sleeving it, but as Ron Neal had earlier spent time with these heads on race engines, he felt with the correct cams, it did not need to be sleeved. The intake manifold and 45DCOE14's were also always with this head and the manifold not sleeved.The Webers are fitted with custom cut 38 mm chokes, cams are 10.6.


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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 08:01 PM
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The mystery deepens. I wouldn't think that an American stamped a part with the Italian word CONDOTTI, e.g. piping. That could mean ports but could also refer to the pipe that was inserted to reduce the ports. Or was there an Italian mechanic at AUSCA that marked heads in that way? I wouldn't think your average American mechanic at the time had any idea what that word meant. And it certainly doesn't sound like a regular production piece. Elucidate me!!!
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 08:44 PM
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No, the head arrived marked that way on an Alfa built street GTA engine in a Stradale GTA that Ausca bought to be made into a race car. Early on, there were three Alfa GTA engines. One could buy a Stradale GTA, a Corsa GTA, or a Corsa GTA engine only from Alfa. I do not know when Autodelta began assembly and sales of race components to Ausca, but they did have Ausca do GTA engine development work, in exchange for some very interesting components while I was there.
Condotti translated to "conducted" as in "conduit". The raw sand cast port runner was profiled and matched to a manifold. The head carries the initials of the finisher in Italy. Back in time (1965) I saw a few like this at Ausca. None were sleeved unless Ron Neal sleeved them. The earliest Ausca sleeves extended as long tubes fitted to the manifold, extending to a section that slid into the head port. Early versions Ron N made up were tapered tubes, and were held in place in the manifold with allen grub screws. Tech inspectors made us change these to epoxy secured tubes, in the manifold, and another section in the head. The manifold had to be removeable as originally built, nothing extending into the head port.
Eventually Ausca ran dry intake manifolds with raised tubed runners, still nothing extending into the head, with coolant feed through head casting plugs. Lots of flow bench, dyno time, and cam development was turned over from Ausca to Autodelta.
Much of the 1971 CAS data was Ausca development work. Pages from the 71 CAS show some GTA port modification and the three basic head port sizes.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 09:28 PM
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I guess that settles that ... at least some of the stock heads were marked by the factory with condotti ...
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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 01:38 AM Thread Starter
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I'm always surprised by your knowledge.

And I'm glad to learn

I have a picture of the front late cylinder head. Could you tell me if this is a 1600 head ?

And now, the great question, do you have parts, head or engine 1600 for sale ? I buy.
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 10:03 AM
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Not a 1600 GTA head I've seen. Possibly 1300 GTA, as I didn't see a lot of these in the mid 60's to mid 70's. I don't know 1300 GTA parts.


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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 01:59 PM
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GTA 1600 head port size

Port size change was always preparatory discretion. The GTA head 105.32.01.053.00 (99) was born as 37 mm aspiration port to match manifold 105.02.01.060.02, and was sleeved to different values to allow more fluid running at low revs. Factory standard was (and remained) 37 mm port. The head in this configuration was FIA homologated (1395) in data 01.May 1966. As a variant, the head with a 32 mm port size was homologated in 01.May 1968 (1395/7/6V), to match 105.30.01.060.01 (homologated as 1395/9/8E) manifold with 32 mm port size. This manifold was offered also without thermostat on request. “Condotti” is Italian (plural) word for tube were mix pass from carbs to combustion chamber (I am not sure for English word) and signed as “37” means the head was standard sand cast GTA version fitted probably on Stradale. In ’66 and ’67 Autodelta used larger port size (up to 39 mm), and only in ’68 they started with sleeving and finally produced 32 mm port size head and manifold. Pescara, your head might be any die cast 1300 (or even 1600) head, but almost surely not GTA. If Gentleman here could not offer you the period GTA head, you can find almost any GTA part (head included) at Zucca or AFRA here in Italy (see attachments)
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 10:37 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you all for info !
@ARGTAReg I know Zucca and Afra, but I would prefer an original cylinder head...
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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 02:42 AM
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Hello All. just to add my 2 cents worth.

The sand cast heads also had a cast in 3 or 4 digit number on the exhaust side. I have not seen duplicate numbers so assume it is a cast in serial number.

The head that came on 752647 Stradale had surprisingly rough cast runners in the head that I was tempted to smooth away but did not. I did not note the dimensions.

ciao

ken

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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 08:55 AM
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Agree. Do NOT smooth them Ken. Mine are like that too. As to performance loss due to rough runners, we now know (flow bench) that a boundry-layer exists over the rough, in effect only making the functional runner smaller. Ron Neal knew this without a flow bench but with a dyno, in 1965. I think the stamped number was a final machine finish number from whom ever may have completed final examination.
I suppose we could all compare these numbers and see if there are duplicates, which might indicate an inspector number, or if no duplicates, then....?


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