Nobody cares what the inside wheel is doing, only the outside wheel that is doing the cornering work.
yes thats what the MR2 mk2, 348, and lotus elise use to think until they had to do a $$$ redesign of the the suspension geometry. newer update revamped the jounce travel to provide more positive camber to aid tire contact with the inner tire
of course it matters. those privateer race engineers clowns on fchat for the 348 challenge cars dont have a clue why the rear pick up points updates were done for.
In an ideal world no, you want all four wheels on the ground. This is why a 250 cc go-kart will always set a faster lap time than a 250 cc motorbike with the same engine.
yes and no... fast corners yes but in a tight corner you want to pick up the rears in a kart since it has a lock rear end to rotate the kart otherwise it would push and bind up like an old 4x4. next time you see a kart, before getting into it, turn the wheel to full lock. you will see the rear inner pick up cleanly off the ground. this is done with adding massive castor on the fronts. ever notice how much more castor modern cars are running compared to the old cars like the 105? you can do that easily now virtually every front engine car is equipped with pw steering
we entered race car design competition, one of the judges said our car wouldnt handle right without understanding the suspension geo. its ended up winning the Goodyear Outstanding performance award. you know who that judge was? Carrol Smith author of the "tune to win" book series. now they test the cars before the static design event to save the embarrassment of the so called expert judges and their theories.
Cornering speed is all about tyre contact patch but the load is on the outside wheel, so sorry don't agree that you need to worry about the inside wheel or keep it on the ground.
A car, or go-kart, setup properly has a considerably larger outside wheel contact patch than any motorcycle because that wheel stays closer to vertical than the motorcycle and therefore more of the tread surface is in contact with the ground. Plus lower CoG and roll centres, etc. ... a motorcycle does not stand a chance.
If you picked a single corner and put the skinniest low grip wheel on the inside front of a car and timed it through that corner it would be very similar in time to when it had its normal wheel on that inside front of the car. After all look at a F1 car; often that wheel is bouncing over a kerb or has ridiculous negative camber ... but the designers don't care, 99% of the work is being done by the outside front wheel.
BTW: Have a look at your recent GTA/GTV racing photos and the inside wheel is either off the ground or very close to it and doing little, but the outside tyre is trying to be pulled off the rim .
kart and formula cars have virtually no bearing with each other in terms of suspension. especially on a F1 car were its easy negate all roll just because the cg is near or below the center of the wheels. you cant do that with and alfa or kart. though im far from being an expert on F1 cars, they intentionally put the roll center below ground in which what we are trying to cure with the 105 front end
True regarding braking but once cornering, ie. you have turned in, it is all about the outside wheel whether on full power or not.
Note in your excellent photo that the inside front wheel is close to off the ground and unloading. The amount of grip that wheel is providing compared to the outside front wheel is very, very low.
Maybe we are having a misscommunication??
ps: I have not raced for 20 years, but nothing has changed. The tyre with the most load on it does the most work.
Guys this is why we race with negative camber and often lots of caster angle. If the inside wheel was more important we would race with positive camber like they used to back in the beam axle days so the inside wheel maximised it's contact patch during cornering ... we don't because there is little load on that tyre and therefore pointless.
Look at the F1 photo below. That inside wheel has a ridiculous amount of negative camber during this corner, but they don't care because the outside wheel is the important one and has the maximised contact patch under load.
not point less. modern rear set IRS set up goes in to positive chamber intentionally along with toe control during jounce. why? for more contact on the inner corner and traction. you dont have that option in a kart or solid rear axle.
I am not so sure that this statement is true. There is a lot of work being put into the grip available from the inside tyres.
Just think about this. If the tyre is on the ground and there is a load on it there will be "grip" to prevent sideways motion from the contact with the road by a certain factor multiplied by the load on that wheel.
If you keep the car as flat as possible and present all tyres to the road they will all provide a resistance to sideways motion i.e. "grip"
Why is it the optimum to get the roll centre as close to the centre of gravity? Less body roll maybe? Less weight transfer?
A tyre offers only so much grip and when that is exceeded you loose traction and go sideways, i.e. slide. Four tyres offer more grip than two.
The more grip you can get from the inside tyres by less weight transfer the better your cornering speed would be. Flat would be the quickest.
yes on most accounts
I'm reasonably confident they would have known about roll centres as Alec Issigonis did when he designed the original Mini.
But we are back in the maybe territory ...
So as these spindles are longer you should have less camber change during roll ... and yet you still have tyre wear, hmmm ... I'm confused again
all things be equal, the farther you spread pivots on the spindle while the lower arm is near horizontal of the lower inner pivot the more camber gain you will get.
its been a long time since i visited the bb. ;-)