GTA Corsa / GTA Strada / Autodelta - questions! - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-05-2015, 11:29 PM Thread Starter
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GTA Corsa / GTA Strada / Autodelta - questions!

Hi!

Well, i am slowly reading my way deeper and deeper into Alfa Romeo history and heritage. A short while ago there was a white GTA 1300 Junior for sale here in Sweden (went off like a rocket, and ended up in Germany for about $140 000).

Anyhow, since i don't have the Adriasens-book, i have to ask here. Please correct me here:

GTA - Just a common name for GTAm, GTA (1600), GTA 1300, GTA Strada, GTA Corsa?

GTAm - The 1750-based, rare, but often replicated, Autodelta exclusive? As in ONLY racing, never sold in public.

GTA - The first one, the 1600...Was it sold in 2 types for the public? Stradale and Corsa - PLUS the pure racespecs Autodelta-cars? So there were 3 versions available?

GTA 1300 Junior - was it same as above? Made in 3 types, whereas 2 types were sold in public?

Any clarification on this would be greatly appreciated!

Especially numbers build of each model!

Kind reegards,
Robert

(O=V=O)
'66 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GT Veloce
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-06-2015, 03:34 AM
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Yeah, I saw that that ad.
But it stayed on a little longer than I thought!

1967 GT 1300 Junior
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-25-2015, 03:31 PM
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Have a look at this link

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertLidstroem View Post
Hi!

Well, i am slowly reading my way deeper and deeper into Alfa Romeo history and heritage. A short while ago there was a white GTA 1300 Junior for sale here in Sweden (went off like a rocket, and ended up in Germany for about $140 000).

Anyhow, since i don't have the Adriasens-book, i have to ask here. Please correct me here:

GTA - Just a common name for GTAm, GTA (1600), GTA 1300, GTA Strada, GTA Corsa?

GTAm - The 1750-based, rare, but often replicated, Autodelta exclusive? As in ONLY racing, never sold in public.

GTA - The first one, the 1600...Was it sold in 2 types for the public? Stradale and Corsa - PLUS the pure racespecs Autodelta-cars? So there were 3 versions available?

GTA 1300 Junior - was it same as above? Made in 3 types, whereas 2 types were sold in public?

Any clarification on this would be greatly appreciated!

Especially numbers build of each model!

Kind reegards,
Robert
Hello Robert,

Please type alfa romeo gta at google and have a look at the en.wikipedia.org site. It contains all the basic information.

Ciao, Olaf

Olaf Roeten a.k.a. Zagato_Olaf, Bussum, The Netherlands

Last edited by Zagato_Olaf; 07-25-2015 at 03:31 PM. Reason: spelling
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-25-2015, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
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Well, Olaf, Ive already done that ofcourse, hence the questions. Wikipedia mentiones nothing about the differences of a Stradale vs Corsa vs Autodelta 1300 Junior for instance, except that they existed? Was the Corsa the same as the works Autodelta 1300s? Or were the Corsa a prepped Stradale for private teams? Ive read all the basic stuff and havent found out anything.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-25-2015, 10:28 PM
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Hej Robert kul att se att du gräver dig djupare ner i träsket. Du kan få låna allegeritta boken utav mig. Björn Nilsson

1952 1900 C Sprint 1959 Giulietta TI (Class winner Rally Monte Carlo 1960)1967 Giulia Super 1970 GT 1300 Junior 2008 159 TI SW 2018 Giulia Q4 Veloce
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-26-2015, 02:33 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Superleggera View Post
Hej Robert kul att se att du gräver dig djupare ner i träsket. Du kan få låna allegeritta boken utav mig. Björn Nilsson
Hallå, Björn!

Japp allt djupare blir det! Har nu specat upp Giulias historik med dokumentation ner till 1968 (saknar bevis för att hon blivit såld hos Italienska Motorimporten i STHLM!). Jag lyxade till och beställde precis Allegerita faktiskt!

349€, trodde den kosta typ 10 000:-!

IN ENGLISH:

Hello, Björn!

yes i'm digging my way deeper and deeper down Alfas history, i got my GTV's history all documented down to 1968, just missing the importers papers. I just placed an order for Allegerita actually!

//END ENGLISH

(O=V=O)
'66 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GT Veloce
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-26-2015, 03:31 AM
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Link to 1750/2000 GTAm

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertLidstroem View Post
Well, Olaf, Ive already done that ofcourse, hence the questions. Wikipedia mentiones nothing about the differences of a Stradale vs Corsa vs Autodelta 1300 Junior for instance, except that they existed? Was the Corsa the same as the works Autodelta 1300s? Or were the Corsa a prepped Stradale for private teams? Ive read all the basic stuff and havent found out anything.
Hello Robert,

Okay, that's a good startingpoint.
On your question in your first post concerning the 1750 /2000 GTAm, here is a link to a post that explains the variations in the GTAm cars that were built. http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/5069705-post274.html


Ciao, Olaf

Olaf Roeten a.k.a. Zagato_Olaf, Bussum, The Netherlands
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-26-2015, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertLidstroem View Post
Well, Olaf, Ive already done that ofcourse, hence the questions. Wikipedia mentiones nothing about the differences of a Stradale vs Corsa vs Autodelta 1300 Junior for instance, except that they existed? Was the Corsa the same as the works Autodelta 1300s? Or were the Corsa a prepped Stradale for private teams? Ive read all the basic stuff and havent found out anything.
Hello Robert,

On the Giulia Sprint 1600 GTA and the GTA 1300 Junior:

Alfa Romeo produced the standard "Stradale" in the Arese factory on the normal production line. There is some discussion on the location (production line or special assembly?) of the last GTA 1300 Juniors that were made. Have a look at the other posts to find out more about that.

If the car became a "Corsa" (I would call that an "Autodelta Customer car") it would have been shipped to Autodelta, disassembled and reassembled with uprated of different parts and uprated specifications. The exact specification of the car would have been decided on by the racing team that ordered the specific "Corsa" just as with the 1750/2000 GTAm Autodelta Customer cars. Some updates would have been standard (for example a deeper oilpan), others optional. These cars would than have been raced, rebuilt, uprated and updated by the racing teams themselves, importers (for example Alfa Romeo Nederland), Autodelta or other tuners or a mix of all of them.

If the car became an "Autodelta" (I would call that an "Autodelta Works car") it would have had all the goodies and updated specifications that Autodelta would have seem fit to add or change in order to make the car competitive for the Autodelta works team at that moment. It would have been rebuilt, updated and uprated during its life at Autodelta in order to keep up with the competition. When it was sold to a customer as an Autodelta Works car, what specification would it have been be sold in?

And off course, other tuners would have assembled cars by ordering the parts from Autodelta and others, add their own special parts, change specifications (for example for the engine) and create their own cars and hence create their own variant. How would we call those?

This is the short version of the difference between the Stradale, Corsa (Autodelta Customer car) and Autodelta (Autodelta Works car). If my fellow alfabb members have something to add or correct, please do so, I am not an GTA specialist.



Ciao, Olaf

Olaf Roeten a.k.a. Zagato_Olaf, Bussum, The Netherlands

Last edited by Zagato_Olaf; 07-26-2015 at 04:16 AM. Reason: additional info
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-26-2015, 04:47 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagato_Olaf View Post
Hello Robert,

On the Giulia Sprint 1600 GTA and the GTA 1300 Junior:

Alfa Romeo produced the standard "Stradale" in the Arese factory on the normal production line. There is some discussion on the location (production line or special assembly?) of the last GTA 1300 Juniors that were made. Have a look at the other posts to find out more about that.

If the car became a "Corsa" (I would call that an "Autodelta Customer car") it would have been shipped to Autodelta, disassembled and reassembled with uprated of different parts and uprated specifications. The exact specification of the car would have been decided on by the racing team that ordered the specific "Corsa" just as with the 1750/2000 GTAm Autodelta Customer cars. Some updates would have been standard (for example a deeper oilpan), others optional. These cars would than have been raced, rebuilt, uprated and updated by the racing teams themselves, importers (for example Alfa Romeo Nederland), Autodelta or other tuners or a mix of all of them.

If the car became an "Autodelta" (I would call that an "Autodelta Works car") it would have had all the goodies and updated specifications that Autodelta would have seem fit to add or change in order to make the car competitive for the Autodelta works team at that moment. It would have been rebuilt, updated and uprated during its life at Autodelta in order to keep up with the competition. When it was sold to a customer as an Autodelta Works car, what specification would it have been be sold in?

And off course, other tuners would have assembled cars by ordering the parts from Autodelta and others, add their own special parts, change specifications (for example for the engine) and create their own cars and hence create their own variant. How would we call those?

This is the short version of the difference between the Stradale, Corsa (Autodelta Customer car) and Autodelta (Autodelta Works car). If my fellow alfabb members have something to add or correct, please do so, I am not an GTA specialist.



Ciao, Olaf
Thank you so very much, Olaf!

Thats a proper reply and i will continue my quest for knowledge! Like mentioned i just ordered Allegerita, so vacation-book-reading is ALL set!

Thanks again!

(O=V=O)
'66 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GT Veloce
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-26-2015, 05:47 AM
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Other variants

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertLidstroem View Post
Thank you so very much, Olaf!

Thats a proper reply and i will continue my quest for knowledge! Like mentioned i just ordered Allegerita, so vacation-book-reading is ALL set!

Thanks again!
Hello Robert,

The second edition of "Alleggerita" will give you a lot of insight. I would recommend it to everyone who is interested in these cars. And if you have the chance, buy a reasonably priced first edition "Alleggerita" as well as it contains additional info.

It will also tell you that some of the "Stradale" cars were sold as such and then or later in life converted into competition vehicles as well.
You can imagine what options in tuners, parts, specifications and options were possible if someone did that.
Or what if you had a unnumbered bodyshell ordered from the factory and had it built up like a Giulia Sprint GTA or GTA 1300 Junior?

Ciao, Olaf
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Olaf Roeten a.k.a. Zagato_Olaf, Bussum, The Netherlands

Last edited by Zagato_Olaf; 07-26-2015 at 05:53 AM. Reason: Additional info
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-26-2015, 07:58 AM
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Following up on the argumentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertLidstroem View Post
Hi!

Well, i am slowly reading my way deeper and deeper into Alfa Romeo history and heritage. A short while ago there was a white GTA 1300 Junior for sale here in Sweden (went off like a rocket, and ended up in Germany for about $140 000).

Anyhow, since i don't have the Adriasens-book, i have to ask here. Please correct me here:

GTA - Just a common name for GTAm, GTA (1600), GTA 1300, GTA Strada, GTA Corsa?

GTAm - The 1750-based, rare, but often replicated, Autodelta exclusive? As in ONLY racing, never sold in public.

GTA - The first one, the 1600...Was it sold in 2 types for the public? Stradale and Corsa - PLUS the pure racespecs Autodelta-cars? So there were 3 versions available?

GTA 1300 Junior - was it same as above? Made in 3 types, whereas 2 types were sold in public?

Any clarification on this would be greatly appreciated!

Especially numbers build of each model!

Kind reegards,
Robert
Hello Robert,

Following up on the argumentation in the previous posts, we could say this:

The Gulia Sprint GTA 1600 and GTA 1300 Junior consisted of at least four different groups of cars, aside from being LHD or RHD:

1. Stradales (Street Cars) produced in Arese and sold as such.
2. Corsa's (Competition Cars), which were converted Stradales (new or used) done by all kinds of tuners with their own specification using Autodelta and other tuners for parts, uprates and specifications.
3. Autodelta Customer Cars that were converted Stradales (new or used) by Autodelta for a specific racing team with their own specification
4. Autodelta Works cars that were converted Stradales by Autodelta as a Works Competiton Cars and raced as such by Autodelta with the specification that seemed fit to win their class at that moment in time.

For the 1750/2000 GTAM, the argumentation on different groups of cars was already given. The GTA-SA is a special breed all together.

Any additions or comments to that, fellow alfabb members?

Ciao, Olaf
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Olaf Roeten a.k.a. Zagato_Olaf, Bussum, The Netherlands
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-26-2015, 02:21 PM Thread Starter
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Ah, information overload!

Thanks again Olaf! Well, i bought my 1966 GTV in august last year, and since then i've gotten kneedeep in everything Alfa, but ofcourse mostly the 105-series. It has spun out now to incl. the Giuliettas, TZ's and 1900s...So i guess its just a downward spiral from here? No, seriously, i'm very happy for all the info and i'm excited to see what Allegerita has to offer!

A previous owner of my car (i'm number 7) met Jochen Rindt when he was racing GTA's here in Sweden. He helped the team with parts and mechanical solutions, and thereby made good friends with Autodelta! He owned a GTA himself back then (we're talking early 70s), and thanks to good partnership with Autodelta he got parts by containerloads from AD. Thats why my GTV has 5 x original Campagnolos and group 2 Autodelta rearaxle, + GTA-headers!

I have my car documented back to 1968 (still missing 2 years!). Oh, looks like i got a bit out of topic here!

Sorry!

Thanks again, Olaf, much appreciated!

(O=V=O)
'66 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint GT Veloce
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-09-2015, 03:35 PM
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Im not expert... If memory serves, the earlier 1600 Gta had more alloy sheet metal than the later 1300s...
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-10-2015, 12:44 PM
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What Fusi had to Say

Here attached is what Fusi, in "All Cars", had to say about the GTA and the GTA Corsa, which is, I suspect, is where the moniker, Corsa, as applied to the GTA 1600 prepared by Auto Delta came from; see page 617. He does not use it, corsa, for the GTAj in that publication at least.

He does not seem to differentiate and nor do I for that matter, between the AD team Corsas and those Corsas sold to others, although there undoubtedly were differences in preparation. But a Corsa must have been prepared by AD and I would suggest that prep should have been before delivery to the first owner of record which in some cases was Auto Delta presumably for the team cars. Stradales returned to Auto Delta for preparation by a private owner, if there are any such situations, should be considered just that and stand on there own merit and are not a Corsa.

Corsas where prepared in both LHD and RHD versions.

Equally, I do not call Stradales sold to and converted to race spec by other tuners, either in era or later, Corsas, they just are what they are, GTA Stradales converted to a race spec by others. And they stand on their own merit, their own success or lack of such and are best accompanied with proving documentation.

The name, GTA Corsa, must be reserved for those GTAs that came prepared to the first owner from the Alfa/Auto Delta complex. IMHO

Of course some GTA Corsa origins are by now anecdotal and people should be aware. Others have better documentation in the form of Doc Centre Records, AD PROVA sheets and/or ACI ID papers. Some can be identified by era pictures.

These, the GTAs, Stradale or Corsa or Preped/Raced by others are all significant rare cars and one should be happy with the true facts.

FWIW

Ken
Attached Images
    

Ken Geiger, Toronto
1965 GTA, RHD, Stradale
ex- 1965 GTA, RHD, Corsa, Trans/Am 66-72
1964 Sprint GT, B-Sedan in 70's
1970 Giulia Super (CDN Spec)
1976 1600 GTj (Italian Spec)
1966 Harley Sprint (Aermacchi) 250
2000 Catalina 320, Hull #765 Northern Dream
2001 BMW Z3 3.0i

Last edited by kengta; 08-10-2015 at 01:32 PM.
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