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post #1 of 395 (permalink) Old 02-21-2010, 03:31 PM Thread Starter
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Hello members,

In some of our threads here, we discussed the GTAm chassisnumbers that we know of from various sources and that could be genuime. I thought it was time to try and make a list. But first a definition of what a GTAm is.
The GTAm was an Alfa Romeo GTV that was converted by Autodelta to GTAm specification. The homologation papers specify what changes could be made.
Besides the type 1750 GTV USA (105.51) some type 1750 GTV EU (105.44) have been converted. Some type 2000 GTV's have also been known to be converted to GTAm specification. Difficulty is that the GTAm's never had a unique type- and chassisnumber. This is unlike the type GTA (105.32 LHD and 105.34 RHD) and type GTA 1300 Junior (105.59).

Then there are variants within the different types:
- new cars from the production line converted to GTAm spec's by Autodelta as Autodelta works cars
- new cars from the production line converted to GTAm spec's by Autodelta as Autodelta customer cars
- existing cars converted to GTAm spec's by Autodelta as Autodelta customer cars
- new or existing cars converted to GTAm spec's by other tuners/teams with Autodelta parts like the Balduzzi cars (Tony Adriaensens mentions this in his book)
- new or existing bodyshells with or without a chassisnumber that were equipped with Autodelta parts (for example from wrecked cars)
- other variants on this theme in various stages of tune

Besides that, there are a lot of replica's with various stages of tune with less or more original GTAm parts. And a lot of real GTAm's will have been updated during and after their racing life, engines and gearboxes swapped, were restored, etc ..... And some of these cars had great palmares while others were less fortunate.

Tabucchi in his first edition of 'Alfa Romeo GTA' from 1994 did list a number of GTAm's (105.51). Here are the chassisnumbers, first owners and dates:
1. 1530671 Autodelta 01-09-1969
2. 1530776 Autodelta 29-10-1969
3. 1530782 Jolly Club 31-12-1969 (Takis confirms car now in the Alfa Romeo Museo Storico collection, see post #34)
4. 1530849 Autodelta 27-01-1970
5. 1530879 Autodelta 08-01-1970
6. 1530896 Autodelta 28-01-1970
7. 1530938 Autodelta 26-01-1970 with licenseplate MI K91850
8. 1530952 Autodelta 26-01-1970 with licenseplate MI L27247
9. 1531034 Autodelta 11-02-1970 with licenseplate MI L26447
10. 1531039 Autodelta 11-02-1970
11. 1531042 Autodelta 16-02-1970
12. 1531231 Luigi Cecchini 26-05-1970 (Takis confirms car is now in Greece, see post #35)
13. 1532265 Autodelta 23-01-1971
14. 1532307 Autodelta 23-01-1971
15. 1532327 Autodelta 23-01-1971
16. 1533142 Autodelta 28-01-1972

He also mentioned two 105.44 types:
17. 1358476 Elaborazione Autodelta, Autodelta works engine
18. 1378479 Monzeglio Squadra Corse (Martinue confirms this car as genuine in post #40)

Mentioned by Don Best and others in the thread concerning GTAm prices were the 'Angola' GTAm's:
19. 1532345
20. 1532346

Fred della Noce noted that he used to own a Brasilian ex Jolly Club Hotel GTAm with chassisnumber now owned by Alcidis Diniz in Brasil. Look in this thread: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/giul...13599-a-3.html. We are talking about a 105.44:
21. 1382607

Here are more chassisnumbers, short discriptions and factory production dates (not the dates of sale to or transport to Autodelta). Source is Tony Adriaensens' book 'Alleggerita' published in 1994 by Corsa Research. If the number in front of the chassisnumber is an X, this chassis was also mentioned by Tabucchi.

X. 1530782 Autodelta works car No date
22. 1530834 Autodelta works car No date
23. 1530840 Raced by Alfa Romeo Benelux/Grafo Racing Team No date
24. 1530841 Raced by Hahn No date
25. 1530848 Previously owned and raced by Toine Hezemans No date
X. 1530849 Autodelta works car 25-01-1970
X. 1530938 Autodelta works car No date
X. 1530952 Autodelta works car No date
X. 1531039 Ex SOFAR France driven by Chasseuil & Houel No date
X. 1531042 Autodelta works car No date
26. 1531210 Raced by Alfa Romeo Benelux No date
27. 1531230 Autodelta works car 30-05-1970
X. 1531231 Autodelta works engine* No date
28. 1532166 Autodelta prepared for Scuderia Brescia Corse No date
X. 1533142 Autodelta works car No date
?. 1538476, not possible because chassisnumber is too high (?!): 1538476 should probably read 1358476

Then there is the car that was owned by Eiso Bergsma with chassisnumber:
29. 1530037 Prepared in 1974

The Italian Monzeglio 105.44 GTAm with chassisnumber:
?. 1357840 (questionmark?)

Martinue mentioned 105.44 chassisnumber:
30. 1357933

Don Best mentioned chassisnumbers:
?. 1530038 (typo for 1530938?, Martinue)
?. 1530145 (typo for 1532345?, Martinue)
?. 1530246 (typo for 1532346?, Martinue)
?. 1530787 (typo for 1530782?, Martinue)
?. 1532165 (typo for 1532166?, Martinue)

Bjorn Schmidt mentioned chassisnumber:
31. 1530974

Vince Sharp mentioned chassisnumber:
32. 1531068

Ecarrillo and others mentioned chassisnumber:
?. 1534912, not possible because chassisnumber is too high (?!) Should this read 1354912 and was it a typo? Why was chassis 1534912 mentioned in the auction data? What about the RHD?

RossoGTVforme mentioned:
33. 1530537 Autodelta prepared (works car?) No date (Sent to US), seen in Montery

So up to now, the sources speak of more than 30 GTAm's that could be genuine and a couple of chassisnumbers that pose questionmarks.

The following period licenseplates were found up to now:

Italy MI K91850 GTAm #?? Giro d'Italia 1973 Venturi - Civolani and #35 Silverstone 1973 Facetti (chassisnumber #1530938)
Italy MI K92422 GTAm #23 Brno 1971 Hezemans
Italy MI K9?291 GTAm #24 Brno 1971 Facetti
Italy MI L27247 GTAm #50 Spa 1973 Larini - Facetti (chassisnumber #1530952)
Italy MI L12787 GTAm #51 Spa 1973 Dini - Dona and #23 Zandvoort Dini - Dona
Italy MI L76850 GTAm #22 Zandvoort 1973 Deen - Zeccoli
Italy MI L47393 GTAm #46 Critérium des Cévennes 1970 Barailler-Fayel (4th) and #37 Silverstone 1973 Dona (chassisnumber #1531230?)
Italy MI L47392 GTAm #59 Tour de France 1970 Darniche-Demange (DNF) (chassisnumber #1531230?)
Italy MI L47391 GTAm #45 Critérium des Cévennes 1970 "Christine"-"Biche" (15th) Winner "Coupe des Dames" and #57 Tour de France 1970 Barailler-Fayel (DNF)
Italy MI L26447 GTAm #60 Tour de France 1970 Dieudonné-Curien (14th) (chassisnumber #1531034) entered by SOFAR
Italy MI L26448 GTAm #57 Tour de France 1971 Chasseuil-Baron (16th) entered by SOFAR
Italy MI K63991 GTAm #47 Critérium des Cévennes 1970 Consten-Todt (3th)
Italy MI K97829 GTAm #58 Tour de France 1970 Pianta-Alemani (7th)
Italy ?? ??????? GTAm #56 Tour de France 1970 Verrier-Vanson (SOFAR ??)
Germany MA HE 555 GTAm #189 Fassberg 1971 Ertl
Holland 93-42-MN GTAm Hezemans (#1530848)


Any additions or comments? You're welcome!

Ciao, Olaf

Olaf Roeten a.k.a. Zagato_Olaf, Bussum, The Netherlands

Last edited by Zagato_Olaf; 12-29-2016 at 03:11 AM.
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post #2 of 395 (permalink) Old 02-25-2010, 09:32 AM
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Hello Olaf,

Thank you and congratulations on compiling the list of GTAm chassis numbers. I did have most of those but not all. I know we have exchanged 'notes' before. I do not think I can add anything to your list.

Have you compiled a list of engine numbers as well?
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post #3 of 395 (permalink) Old 02-25-2010, 11:38 AM
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1530537 Autodelta prepared (works car?) No date (Sent to US)

Saw it in Monterey, CA

-56" Giulietta Spider Veloce (Sebring 1st in Class 1957).
-57" Giulietta Spider (Period SCCA race car)
-58" Giulietta Spider Veloce (FIVA/HVA winner, fully documented historically preserved, original surivor SCCA race car)
-67" GTA 1600 Corsa Autodelta Ex-Works/Monzeglio Squadra Corse. (1st CL Spa 12 Hr 67", Trento Bondone 68", Targa Florio 71")
-67" GTA 1600 Corsa Autodelta Ex-Works Prototipo (All original).
-69" GTAm
-69" GTV
-71" Montreal
-73" 2000 GTV (In the family 44 years & counting)
-75" Alfetta GT (Rally/Street)
-75" Alfetta GT (Race Car)
-75" Alfetta 'Berlina' Sedan (Rally/Street)
-15" 4C LE (Earliest LE in US).
-17" Giulia QV

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post #4 of 395 (permalink) Old 02-25-2010, 02:04 PM
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Ar15321231

Auction Reults and Picture
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File Type: pdf AR1531231 GTAm LHD Christie's 2001 Dec.pdf (179.5 KB, 681 views)

Eliseo Carrillo
105.30....Scalino
101.23....Little Green Spider - now back home with Dr. Rex
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post #5 of 395 (permalink) Old 02-25-2010, 02:08 PM
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Ar135847

Auction results and Picture. I believe that the serial number in the auction is a typo, but this is a better explanation:
"So up to now, the sources speak of 39 GTAm's that could be genuine. Off course there are questions concerning this list. For example Tony Adriaensens mentions 1538476. Maurizio Tabucchi mentions 1358476. They both could be right. There could be a typo."
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File Type: pdf AR135847 GTAm RHD Brooks 1999 Aug.pdf (217.2 KB, 510 views)

Eliseo Carrillo
105.30....Scalino
101.23....Little Green Spider - now back home with Dr. Rex
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post #6 of 395 (permalink) Old 02-25-2010, 02:13 PM
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Ar1534912 ?

This is another auction result for a GTAm, but I don't see the serial number in this list, I am not sure if it is or not.
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File Type: pdf AR1534912 GTAm RHD World Classic 1993 Aug.pdf (135.2 KB, 594 views)

Eliseo Carrillo
105.30....Scalino
101.23....Little Green Spider - now back home with Dr. Rex
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post #7 of 395 (permalink) Old 02-25-2010, 02:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECARRILLO View Post
This is another auction result for a GTAm, but I don't see the serial number in this list, I am not sure if it is or not.
Hello Guys,

Thank you very much for the additions!! They are most welcome! Please keep them coming.

Eliseo, you are right! AR1534912 was not included. I will add this number in the list in the first post. The enginenumber of this car is AR00551.05212 according to my sources.
RossoGTVforme, I added 1530537 Autodelta prepared (works car?) No date (Sent to US). Where did you find the information?

Ciao! Olaf

Olaf Roeten a.k.a. Zagato_Olaf, Bussum, The Netherlands

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post #8 of 395 (permalink) Old 02-25-2010, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECARRILLO View Post
For example Tony Adriaensens mentions 1538476....There could be a typo."

I will submit that 1538476 is a typo for the simple reason that the highest chassis number in the 10551 series is 1533244.

I also question chassis 1534912 for the same reason; 1533244 is the highest listed chassis number. In addition, Alfa has typically used different model type numbers for LHD and RHD versions of the same model. The GTAm is based on the USA version 10551, a LHD vehicle. So if 1534912 is an authentic vehicle, how can it A) have such a high chassis number and B) be RHD?

Jim

Series 2 USA 1750 GTV (in Series 1 European clothing)
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post #9 of 395 (permalink) Old 02-25-2010, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papajam View Post
I will submit that 1538476 is a typo for the simple reason that the highest chassis number in the 10551 series is 1533244.

I also question chassis 1534912 for the same reason; 1533244 is the highest listed chassis number. In addition, Alfa has typically used different model type numbers for LHD and RHD versions of the same model. The GTAm is based on the USA version 10551, a LHD vehicle. So if 1534912 is an authentic vehicle, how can it A) have such a high chassis number and B) be RHD?
[SIZE=""]Hello Jim,

You are right. So 1538476 must be a typo because 1533244 is the highest chassisnumber (?!). And 1358476 was mentioned as well.

And the same goes for 1534912. Strange (?!) The document says 1534912. And I have an enginenumber for this car. Unless there is a typo in the document and the chassisnumber should read 1354912! But what about the RHD? A lot of questions. Time will tell!

Thanks for the feedback!

Ciao, Olaf[/SIZE]

Olaf Roeten a.k.a. Zagato_Olaf, Bussum, The Netherlands

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post #10 of 395 (permalink) Old 02-26-2010, 07:32 AM
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*1530038*: typo of *1530938*
*1530145*: typo of *1532345*
*1530246*: typo of *1532346*
*1530787*: typo of *1530782*
*1532165*: typo of *1532166*
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post #11 of 395 (permalink) Old 02-26-2010, 12:23 PM
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Hello Olaf,

In my opinion, putting the chassis number list together is a tribute to your leadership.

In some of the other threads on the BB I made comments about the debates that we might have in the future about GTAm's - I think you have just started that process.

Here are some photographs of GTAm's racing in the 1970's. The first photograph is the of the GTAm that was thrown away, the second is of the GTAm in action at Kyalami and the third is self explanatory.
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post #12 of 395 (permalink) Old 02-26-2010, 12:32 PM
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Hello Martinue,

Can you spot the 'typo' in the following photograph? What do you think?

Pick a number - any number?
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post #13 of 395 (permalink) Old 02-26-2010, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by South Africa View Post
Hello Martinue,

Can you spot the 'typo' in the following photograph? What do you think?

Pick a number - any number?
[SIZE=""]Hello South Africa and Martinue,

Martinue, thanks for sharing your information with us concerning the chassisnumbers. It will be interesting to see what more comes up. I made corrections in the first post.

South Africa, I thought is was time to somehow get a sort of grip on the chassisnumbers concerning GTAm's. We together (here on alfabb) know a great deal and have spoken about different GTAm's over time. Maybe we can shed some extra light on this racecar and put together a list of chassisnumbers which are confirmed, plausible and questionmarks. Yes, debates will arise. That's okay. This is not exact science. It will be interesting to see what information, what pictures, stories, etc will pop up.
Thanks for your pictures!! And the last one is definitly interesting!! I read 1531230 and beneath it 1531062? What do you make of it?

Ciao! Olaf[/SIZE]

Olaf Roeten a.k.a. Zagato_Olaf, Bussum, The Netherlands

Last edited by Zagato_Olaf; 12-31-2016 at 02:17 AM.
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post #14 of 395 (permalink) Old 02-26-2010, 02:51 PM
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I see those two numbers as well. Note the different fonts of the two '2's.

Jim

Series 2 USA 1750 GTV (in Series 1 European clothing)
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post #15 of 395 (permalink) Old 02-26-2010, 11:35 PM
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The VIN is that of the restamped *1531042*, otherwise there were two Autodelta GTAms with the same number, which was a problem even in the 1980s. It had this unusual type plate on it when for sale:
Name:  1531230 20050822 F 011.jpg
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The Greek wreck is that of Yannis "Mavros" Meimaridis+, a wide fendered GTA, not a GTAm.
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