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post #1 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-20-2009, 03:09 PM Thread Starter
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69 gta 1600s

Hi every one , does anyone have any information on the 8-- series gtas of 69 , i recall Adriensens mentioning a late series which was not a 613 series but a 848 or 898 series or sth. like that ....(can't recall right now and my book is in italy an i'm in mexico ...) .
I have searched all the posts but have not found anything on this "re.-edition" of 1600 gtas in 69 -70 .
My father does recall that he had seen some in italy with an original (not adapted) brake booster and always recalled this as a "second " series.
But these are distant memories today.......
I would like some information on these cars if anyone has any.
Thanks
Giamba
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post #2 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-20-2009, 03:26 PM
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848 series Giulia Sprint GTA

Quote:
Originally Posted by giamba_ps View Post
Hi every one , does anyone have any information on the 8-- series gtas of 69 , i recall Adriensens mentioning a late series which was not a 613 series but a 848 or 898 series or sth. like that ....(can't recall right now and my book is in italy an i'm in mexico ...) .
I have searched all the posts but have not found anything on this "re.-edition" of 1600 gtas in 69 -70 .
My father does recall that he had seen some in italy with an original (not adapted) brake booster and always recalled this as a "second " series.
But these are distant memories today.......
I would like some information on these cars if anyone has any.
Thanks
Giamba
Hello Giamba,

According to d' Amico and Tabucchi in their book 'Alfa Romeo Production Cars 1910 - 2007' published in 2007 by Giunti/Giorgio Nada, a total of 12 GTA 1600's with chassisnumbers ranging from 848001 up to 848012 were produced in 1969. That's all I can tell you now.

Ciao, Olaf

Olaf Roeten a.k.a. Zagato_Olaf, Bussum, The Netherlands

Last edited by Zagato_Olaf; 12-20-2009 at 03:27 PM. Reason: additional info
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post #3 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-20-2009, 03:34 PM Thread Starter
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Hello Olaf , thanks for your quick reply and i was hoping you would reply .......
Yes i have all those books also (in Itlay..) i was wandering if anyone in the forum had any other pictures of these few second series gtas , i find them interesting given they were made years after the 613s and therefore probably had some small differences with the other ones .
Also my dad Remembers clealry that the late gta juniors 72 -74 did not anymore all have all aluminum panels , rather just the doors ,bonnet and trunk .
Do you condivide this information?
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post #4 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-20-2009, 04:32 PM
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Also my dad Remembers clealry that the late gta juniors 72 -74 did not anymore all have all aluminum panels , rather just the doors ,bonnet and trunk .
Do you condivide this information?
I saw a GTA Jr. advertised that was just as you described. Neither I nor my customer pulled the trigger on it because we weren't sure what the story behind the steel pannels were.

Also, I heard the 848 GTA's were made from left over GTA Jr. bodies and 1600 GTA motors which explains why they have the higher rear wheel arches. Is there any truth to that?
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post #5 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-20-2009, 04:53 PM
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848 Series

The 848 series GTAs definitely have the higher rear wheel arch. They aslo have the left hand side trunk release. All outer panels are aluminum. The front crossmember has the 4 bolt lower A-arm attachment so they could be considered juniors bodies with a larger motor and a 1600 interior.

As a side topic has anyone figured out why some GTAs and juniors had alloy spare tire wells and some where steel?

Regards,
Don

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post #6 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-20-2009, 04:59 PM Thread Starter
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Hello Athony , well my dad , now 82 ,who had a vast experience of "special" alfas of all likes in italy tells me that he recalls seeing one like that at the raganelli rome dealership in the mid 70 s , new , they were not easy sales by then they were expensive ,less performant than a 2000gtv , gas crisis , and for racing out of homolgation or almost etc.etc... and even a 73 or 74 gtaj .could stay in the showroom for quite some time .

Regarding the 848 gtas , i cant rember the picture in alleggerita if you can see the rear whheel arch ....but i'm sure they were built using the available gt chassis at the moment and therefore must have had the high well arch and other up dates that were carried to the post 68 gts .......
Lets see if someone can send some pictures or more info on both cars ......

Also did the half steel half alum. gtaj have rivets in the roof gutters ? I wpuld suppose not right ???
Giamba
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post #7 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-20-2009, 05:11 PM Thread Starter
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I think the alloy wheel wells on the gtaj were based simply on availability or maybe at a certain point the material remaning from the gta 1600 s ran out and they just passed to the stock wheel well .......the whole gta assembly line was a bit of a mixup especially by the gtaj days when the gt juinor mass production was on its way and the oddball gtaj was mixed along the 100 thuosand gtj that were produced .
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post #8 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-20-2009, 05:17 PM
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848... were essentially GTA junior shells with a 1600 drivetrain. They have the later 4-bolt crossmember, the higher rear wheel arches, slightly different rivet spacing on the rear panel, fake woodgrain dash, ATE brakes (rears w/ small wheel cylinder), Bonaldi booster, die cast head, aluminum front timing cover.

Three of these were delivered to the Scuderia Autohaus Taunus which belonged to the son of Alfred Teves of ATE. 848001 and 848003 were among the 3 cars, all of them Autodelta prepared with one car being fuel injected w/ narrow angle head.

Re; GTA junior with steel panels: I am dubious that these were original as I have seen some GTA juniors with the latest build dates and they had aluminum panels. However, Lee Midgley ran his GTA w/ steel fenders but they weren't original ...

Here are some of the 848... cars I have information about, some of it made available by martinue on this board.

848001 Autohaus Taunus. German race history. I have owned this car since 1984

848002 reportedly was sold to Frankfurt but likely was sold to Ecuador instead. Possible Ecuadorean race history. It was recently sold by VSOC.

848003 Autohaus Taunus, sold to Helmut Haehn; converted to 1300; sold by Thiesen in Germany recently.

848009

848011 Autodelta prepared; converted to 1300
848012

848016 probably Autodelta prepared w/ substantial modifications
848017 probably Autodelta prepared w/ substantial modifications

Picture of 848001 below


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Originally Posted by italcarguy View Post
I saw a GTA Jr. advertised that was just as you described. Neither I nor my customer pulled the trigger on it because we weren't sure what the story behind the steel pannels were.

Also, I heard the 848 GTA's were made from left over GTA Jr. bodies and 1600 GTA motors which explains why they have the higher rear wheel arches. Is there any truth to that?
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post #9 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-20-2009, 05:31 PM Thread Starter
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Excellent thank you very interesting .
more .....more.........ha..ha..
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post #10 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-20-2009, 05:42 PM Thread Starter
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from what year were they made ? 69 to ?
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post #11 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-20-2009, 06:31 PM
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All the production dates I have are 1969. On the other hand, homologation is January 1968.
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post #12 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-21-2009, 03:57 AM
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Non aluminium panels

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Originally Posted by giamba_ps View Post
Hello Olaf , thanks for your quick reply and i was hoping you would reply .......
Yes i have all those books also (in Itlay..) i was wandering if anyone in the forum had any other pictures of these few second series gtas , i find them interesting given they were made years after the 613s and therefore probably had some small differences with the other ones .
Also my dad Remembers clealry that the late gta juniors 72 -74 did not anymore all have all aluminum panels , rather just the doors ,bonnet and trunk .
Do you condivide this information?
Hello Giamba,

I wouldn't know about the non aluminium panels for late GTA 1300 Juniors. I would go with Alleggerita on this matter and on the other differences with the earlier GTA's. Great to see a picture of such a car and find out some more info on the numbers made! I checked my Fusi but he doesn't mention the 1969 GTA's. I will check the book 'Alleggerita' if I have the opportunity to do so. Interesting thread!

Ciao, Olaf

Olaf Roeten a.k.a. Zagato_Olaf, Bussum, The Netherlands
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post #13 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-21-2009, 04:47 PM
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Alleggerita

Its great to see a picture of your car; you have posted so much about gtas; but I don't recall hearing that you have a gta.

I see that your car has a master switch in the grill; is this a Hahn feature (see picture below)?

What racing hystory does your car have in Germany?
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post #14 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-21-2009, 08:53 PM
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I grew up not far away from Hähn's shop and used to drop by there fairly regularly to look at his GTA's. Your car looks familiar 848003?

The master cut-off switch is a German military switch manufactured by Bosch which was commonly installed on German race cars at the time - some of them may have walked home from the base

I have known 848001 for a long time. In fact I used to walk by it when I was in my teens and almost bought it in 1980 and eventually got it in 1984. The car was delivered as Stradale to Frankfurt and subsequently modified by Autodelta. Car was raced by Gerhard Breitwieser and Siegfried (Sigi) Müllers in 1969 and early 1970 - 11 or 12 races total - I have the original log book: hill climbs, airport circuits, Nürburgring, Hockenheim, mostly small events and 1st and 2nd places.

BTW, here's an ad from 12/1969 which offered 848001, 848003 and a bunch of other GTA's I don't know the serial # of. For sale ad is courtesy of martinue.

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Alleggerita

Its great to see a picture of your car; you have posted so much about gtas; but I don't recall hearing that you have a gta.

I see that your car has a master switch in the grill; is this a Hahn feature (see picture below)?

What racing hystory does your car have in Germany?
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post #15 of 61 (permalink) Old 12-21-2009, 09:31 PM Thread Starter
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I would not be so dubious on the part - steel panel gtaj ,
for example in edmonton at ital motors i came across a white 2000 gtv sold new there in canada 72 ,73 (cant recall the cars precise year) and therefore injected that had ,believe it or not , alluminum panel doors with the stock gtv door handle , we peeled the paint on the inner side and effectively the doors are alluminum , the car was never raced or mismatched it was simply a stock 2000 gtv customer car.
doubt on the doors arised once that i noticed a more "hollow" resonance upon closing the door and it reminded me of my gta doors and also lighter to open and close .

often At arese strange things went on..... as cars went out of production and their parts were lingering around ....lets not forget that a state run italian car factory is not exactly a mercedes or volkswagen plant .................. i would not see any other explanation given the car was sold new at ital and always serviced there through the years by it's owner who had no racing aspirations either to have made such a unlikely switch.
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