$170K to restore a GTV - Page 4 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #46 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 11:46 AM
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'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
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post #47 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by junglejustice View Post
Many of the parts that go into an original rebuild are no longer available for most of these cars, ... With an eye on quality, cost and availability, one reverts to reproduced pieces; some close to the original in specification, quality and function, some reproduced with increased performance in mind and some choices yet, purely aesthetic. Either way, ultimately, the cost of the parts holds a limited part in the overall cost picture of any restoration.
Restoration of cars is all about choices and we see this in the different approaches taken and sometimes its not to factory original standards. Some methods of using second hand parts cleaned up, builds using NOS parts, builds using reproduction parts may get you to factory original standards, while other builds using the wrong parts engine, interior etc will not. You have to be clear what you want in a 105 car.
Do you want a car close to or at factory original standards or do you want a hybrid car a modified version of the car with different power plants for street and another for race and another for replica race GTA list goes on and on...
After 50 years there as some NOS parts available, but expensive. It's the time that it will take to find them which could keep some one busy, either its you or you are paying for some one else to look (so parts costs and labour costs are related for NOS parts say.)

Some times you are not going to be able get car to the state/condition you want factory standard so you will have to make compromises to get yourself behind the wheel.

Now with more dedicated companies coordinating with the major parts suppliers doing 'turn key' 105 cars you can buy what you want. You just have to find the body shell or they have them in stock where you can choose.

I think the bench mark for valuations really comes back to a fully restored car to factory specifications. Every other variation from factory specifications is a hybrid car, a 2019 interpretation of a 1967 car. I'm not saying hybrid cars should not be built, only in that you can't use them to set the benchmark of valuation of factory originality.
I have valued hybrid cars not on how much was spent on them i.e. receipts but what would the cost be to reinstate the them back to standard factory condition in combination with on selling any of the nonstandard parts. For example a 1750 GTV 1969 with a non standard interior: value of non standard interior if sold? ~$500. Cost of correct interior installed ~$10,000. Cost to reinstate car to original = $10,000-$500=$9,500. Value of fully restored to factory specs 1750 GTV 1969= $X. I value the hybrid car at $X - $9,500.

I think these are exciting times for the 105 cars (for the remaining 105 cars) and the owners and potential owners and the repairers and parts suppliers where the cars are now in the spotlight and main stream be they factory standard or hybrid.

Last edited by Steve105; 08-13-2019 at 11:43 PM.
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post #48 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 04:35 AM
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I wasn't able to get that link to work, but found it at: http://catalogue.rmsothebys.com/books/zapo/#p=232 Click on the magnifying glass with the "+" sign inside it in order to make the text readable.

Yea, the catalog write-up says they spent $170K restoring it and that the work was done by Coachwerks of Victoria, B.C. RM Southebys calls the restoration price "staggering".

Estimated selling price is $125 - 150K, so even if you buy this GT at the high end of the range, you'll still be "saving" $20K (try convincing you wife of this logic!).
To add some perspective, the $170k in receipts is very likely $CND (shop being in Canada). In $USD that would be a bit less than $130k, currently. This might have something to do with the $125-150k estimate, which is surely in $USD. Still, the word "staggering" was well chosen.
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post #49 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 07:15 AM
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How people spend their money is their business. Glad we can look.

The windshield washer fluid bag needs a logo that says "Tudor" and some extra Italian stuff I can interpret into English with internet translator.

Brad "Guru" Fischer: Salespeople always call GT/GTV/Roundtail interiors leather, but the interiors were "skai" vinyl. Used car salespeople, geez.
Is the vinyl original weave available in leather now? Ben at Ralliround sold me some 1969 GTV seats and if the leather weave is available, that's what I will recover them in.

Good, honest, leather/vinyl/upholstery people are always busy. Any names and numbers on the West Coast or Texas would be appreciated. I know a few, but some that I know are cranky, or the nice ones working on yachts/boats right now.

When we had zero to no money, my spouse recovered my 1969 Spider seats, and nobody has come close to her work. But I am now too smart to ask her to do that, as I value my life.
TY

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post #50 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 04:02 PM
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Brad, is the weave available as real leather, not Skai?
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post #51 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 07:53 PM
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I sold a running 1969 GTV with a rusty body for $2.5K several years ago. I knew that the body work would probably cost more than $20K and the car was not worth restoring.
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post #52 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 11:22 PM
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20k ... min 50k, if done properly
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'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
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post #53 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 03:04 AM
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Dr.G, Not sure what is available for the S1 Euro 1750 GTV seat material. I bought Skai black vinyl for my S2. That basket weave would be tough to duplicate in leather.

http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/alfa-romeo-club-canada-toronto-chapter/149533-alfa-parts-garage-sale.html
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post #54 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 11:49 AM
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As an aside, did anyone scroll through the other estimates? They all seem extremely high and unrealistic. Do they do that for the benefit of the owner? I don't get it and I'd be surprised if many of the cars advertised make it to the low estimate.
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post #55 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 12:34 PM
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I was using the price to repair and paint a 1967 GTV body and was told that the price was $25K. The body was at a shop that I have used many times but, I felt that the owner should have bought a better car. I sold my 1969 GTV because the car needed new rocker panels, front windshield panel replacement, rear window panel replacement, floor panel replacement and maybe trunk floor repair.
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post #56 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 01:33 PM
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post #57 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 06:20 PM
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Curious? Would someone like Hagerty accept a policy that high?

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post #58 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 09:25 PM
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What is happening I think as I mentioned before is demand has shifted upwards (be it for restoration or modified{hybrid} purposes) coupled with a close to vertical supply curves for these cars.
So in effect you have the following two groups competing for cars on the demand side those striving for factory original cars; the restorers {collectors} and the hybrid car builders, GTA/m evocation cars and racers.
On the supply side you have cars in various conditions. There are a wide range of conditions of cars available on the market, from closed to consumed by neglect so very needy cars requiring many new panels and mechanicals replaced, to running cars that have suffered poor repairs in the past like with angle iron for sills and square tubing for front cross members, not to mention chicken wire and filler. To sleeper cars missing original parts brought out of long term hibernation. Sourcing the missing correct mechanicals like engine, diff/brakes and gearbox can be costly in money and time.

What has caught a number of people out is their lack of knowledge with regards to the factory original interior, i.e. colours and materials for the 105 cars (for some hybrid cars this is not an issue). That's because no one has really bothered to check for the last 50 years, but now 'we' know!

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post #59 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 09:33 PM
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The cost of a restoration is directly proportional to the amount of money the shop thinks you have.
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post #60 of 75 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 10:43 PM
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The cost of a restoration is directly proportional to the amount of money the shop thinks you have.
I'm not so sure.
I still think it's how well prepared you are as the owner and how well you know your car and understand what is needed and work as a team with the repairer. What was the comment by Gprocket, he just got off the phone about parts he needed then walked to the front door to pick them up.
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