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Alfarrari, Home Built 105/Ferrari video build

42K views 185 replies 39 participants last post by  Home Built by J 
#1 ·
Hey guys,

I have teased the details of this engine swap for a while, and I have finally done it. I am putting a Ferrari engine in my Alfa 105. As such I thought it deserved starting a new thread with a title that better describes it.

This may annoy some of you as I have not chosen an Alfa engine for this build and it is not going to be an original matching numbers restoration. I can appreciate those builds and if that is your thing, more power to you. For me, unless the car is particularly rare or special, it doesn't really get me excited. I build cars for me and this is going to be just that. I think it will be an absolute blast, and if you can get on board with that hopefully you will enjoy this build along with me.

Here is a link to the original thread before I announced the engine.

https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/gt-1963-1977/680560-home-built-jeff-73-gtv-video-build.html

 
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#39 ·
It is very possible to balance a high power light weight car, you just have to think hard about the entire car, not just adding power. There are 500hp LS Powered Miatas that actually are very balanced, but they require a well-built cage (usually with bracing into the engine bay), very wide sticky tires (wide body or huge flares), thoughtful gear ratios, big brakes, and a lot of thought into the suspension. There are also 500hp Miatas that are undriveable tire smoke machines. It's all in the execution.

One thing that helps with a Ferrari motor (as opposed to an Amercian v8) is that these aren't super torquey motors and should have pretty linear power delivery. You won't be caught off guard by the power.
 
#41 ·
I have already worked out brakes. As for the chassis, I will be running a half cage and I will be reinforcing it all over. I also have the guidance of Tim Doyle who has been restoring 105's for 30 years and he is already assisting me on the weak points of the chassis, etc. Suspension is something I have not completely ironed out yet, but I will be looking into the best ways to get this little thing to handle well. The 360 V8 is not actually that big compared to a lot of V8's out there and I am looking forward to seeing what the actual weight difference is.
 
#46 · (Edited)
I think this episode should be of particular interest to a lot of you. I know I was very curious to actually see what we were dealing with. Anyway in this episode I weigh the Ferrari engine and the original Alfa engine and see how much I am going to 'ruin' the weight balance of this little car. I also get the shell back from blasting and there were quite a few nasty surprises.

 
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#49 ·
When I restored my 79 Alfetta sedan in 1988, I stripped 5 layers of paint and filler using paint stripper and it was a labour of love. After exposing all the usual.rust spots around window, door sill ext, I replaced every panel and cut out all the rot. Today, its still owned by my mate that bought it from me and is still in pristine condition. It pays to get the job done right the first time, and the alfetta wasn't classified as a classic then. I took pride in all the projects I completed in the last 30 yrs and can wait to finish my Lancia and to start another 75.
 
#51 ·
Move the battery to the boot and you'll just about have it back to balance.
 
#52 ·
I will have the battery, oil tank (for the dry sump) and a half cage in the back of the car, so I think the weight balance will still be similar to the original. I do aim to corner weigh it when it is done to see what the real figures are.
 
#53 ·
If you have corner scales available, you might want to use them to decide where to put the components as you build (once it's built it's just reporting a result). Given that it is a right hand drive car, I would think that you'd like to put things on the left side rear. Generally within the wheelbase. Having the scales available will allow you to fine tune for best result prior to permanent placement.
 
#54 ·
I don't have corner weight scales at this stage, but this is not being built as the ultimate race car. The aim for this is a fun road car, that sounds amazing, still handles well in the twisties, and scares the pants off of you if you floor it :grin2:

That said, there will be a bit of thought to where things are mounted like the battery, oil tank, fuel tank, etc. Some of it is just going to be a packaging exercise, butI hope to keep it as a useable car when it is done, that we can road trip in reasonable comfort.
 
#57 · (Edited)
I like the videos, I just get exhausted watching all the work being done:)
Has Mrs Jeff presented before? as she seems to have a great/unique presentation style when discussing the early cars and drivers, the scripts and presentation work well together I think (partly from the driver's view point)
Check out the book titled 'Racing around the World' 1920-1935 by Count Giovanni Lurani from a driver's view point.
Regards Steve
 

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#61 · (Edited)
Now we can see if this Ferrari engine actually fits in this tiny little Alfa 105's engine bay.]
A couple of layman thoughts:

1. Could the intake runners be radiused 90º so that the red plenums were rotated down and sit down above the heads? You'd keep the F-car plenums, the intake runner length would remain the same, the throttles could be at the front as you said, and it may clear a stock hood (bonnet?).... hmm. You'd have to take them off to get to the plugs, yes.

2. Even though I understand those blue steel tubes boxed-in are quite strong, I feel like the thin-ness of the center of that new "beam" essentially puts a structural "hinge" in the shell of this car. That's how we would describe a strong structure in one portion of a building or bridge, and a strong portion in another, but the joint between them is not near as stiff and the whole thing will tend to "hinge" right there.

You don't have the space to increase the depth of that member UP obviously. What's the situation beneath this cross member? Is that the lowest portion of a 105? The pan sits lower by a bit, then some of us hang the steel strap pan guard even lower. Could you reinforce this crossmember beam with more depth down, below the current bottom edge? You could fab an aluminum skid plate that would divert an impact away from your new pan and the cross member. The BMW E30 guys have some nice ones that are bolt-on.

Even a radiused or bowed steel shape that ties solidly into the uprights at each end. It's not like a bridge where it need strength in the middle - it's a link that wants to bend or flex at each end joint (or the center if not stiff enough).

Just ideas for discussion!
Thanks.
 
#62 ·
I was very interested to see your solution for this. I have a project in mind that needs some relief from that cross member. My thoughts were more towards cutting out the crossmember in total (leaving the upper a-arm mount) plating it with properly spec'd steel and then creating a removal tube-framed crossmember bent to provide clearance.

Fabrication is fascinating.
 
#65 ·
#67 ·
Have you looked through my thread on the work needed to install an Alfa Montreal dry sump engine in a 105 car? Required cutting away most of the cross member. converting to rear mounted rack & pinion and much firewall and tunnel mods.

https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/sp...966-1994/74007-spider-improvement-effort.html

Rj
Awesome. Thanks. I have been looking to see what I can find, but it is hard finding what I need from the large history of posts.

I watched the steering rack conversion that ColinB did which is very helpful. I will be doing a bunch of reinforcement around the car to make sure it is going to handle the stresses put on it.
 
#66 · (Edited)
Looks like the crossmember mods start at Page 12, Post 168 of Richard's thread. But keep reading because there is a lot more.
 
#70 · (Edited)
Chassis mods

It looks like you did something very similar to what I did for the crossmember. I haven't read it all yet, but have you had the car on the road? How has it held up?
Yes its been driven quite hard, and the cross member residue was reinforced with 4130 tubing. Should show up in the pics. Full chassis was reinforced with a 1.5", .090 roll bar and the rest of the cage`s reinforcement tubing is 1.5" .065 wall tubing.

With oil tank built into the trunk area`s floor along with the battery and fuel cell, with m sitting so far back in the car (due to mid front engine placement) the car is about 30 lbs heavier in the rear.
 
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