Thoughts on usable, yet not original car - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 12:48 PM Thread Starter
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Post Thoughts on usable, yet not original car

So, looking at this thread https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/gt-...t-romance.html got me thinking. Reading the responses there, for example the response by Steve105, underscored to me the information gap between me and the sellers of these cars.

I'd like to buy an Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint / 1750 GTV to use as a daily driver. I'd buy it when I have sufficient money to purchase and maintain it.

Is there some way to close the information chasm? From things such as what trim is original, engines, carburettors, swage lines, repairs etc, how can I prevent myself from making big mistakes?

I don't mind about buying a non-original car, as I would be focused on usability rather than originality. However I'd like to know if the car I'm buying is actually original, relatively original, relatively modified or more. What are your thoughts?

Best wishes
A 27 year old Alfista
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 01:50 PM
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You raise a good point, and I've just searched this site for a "buyers guide" and failed to find anything to help.

But there is an enormous amount of quality information on this site.

If you are looking at buying a 1750 GTV, I suggest you read 1750GT's restoration thread: https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/gt-...storation.html. Note this is a Series I, American model.
In regards to a Series II, Papajam's (, RIP) refresh of his: https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/car...ng-71-gtv.html

My personal opinion on buying these cars is:
  • Body condition is everything and you need to study 1750GT's thread for how the body work is supposed to look, because once you know where the seams are, etc., it is relatively easy to spot a car that has had body work, and if good or otherwise, and then you know where to start inspecting with a magnet.
  • These cars are now old and were not made well, or to last, so to find one that has not had body work is very rare, so you have to make a decision: buy a professionally, or professional quality restoration, tired original car that is a survivor, or a cheap really rusty once that needs everything. Be VERY careful buying an in-between car because you will pay too much and soon end up doing the same work as that cheap really rusty one.
  • Mechanical condition does not matter at all. These cars are relatively easy to sort out mechanically and you can still buy engines for under $1k, gearboxes and diffs for peanuts ... but you are more likely to find one that is perfect mechanically and stuffed body wise.
  • Trim matters, and because Alfa Romeo trim lasts only single years thanks to water leaks, and lets be honest most Alfisti don't give a toss ... it's the driving experience that matters. But you can now buy retrimming kits ... but getting it right will take patience and will be part of the ownership fun.

If you can, buy a half finished restoration where the body has nearly been done, and done properly but for some reason the enthusiasm has gone ... you then save money and time, and end up winning.
Pete
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'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
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Last edited by PSk; 05-02-2019 at 01:53 PM.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macklemore View Post
I'd like to buy an Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint / 1750 GTV to use as a daily driver...
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1963 Giulia Spider (1750 engine)
1974 GTV
1991 Spider
Former: 1987 Milano Gold
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macklemore View Post
A 27 year old Alfista
Fantastic to hear from a young Alfista!

What is your daily commute like? One concern would be your safety...

Jannes
'64 Giulia 1600 Ti, '66 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce, '70 1750 GTV
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeloceRosso View Post
One concern would be your safety...
Over stated.

Macklemore, Yes these cars may not be as safe as modern cars in the "accidents are inevitable so cars must be designed to crash well" nanny world we now have. BUT they do have crumple zones.


Buying any old car as an enthusiast SHOULD mean you like the car you have purchased, and therefore you NEED to drive it with the goal of protecting it. Some see this as "the idiot loves his car too much", but there is logic in this process. If you love your car and drive so that you are in control of as much of what happens around it as you can, then the car will not get damaged AND guess what?, if the car never gets damaged, then it's occupants never get hurt too!

This is also how to stay alive on a motorcycle.


So please mate, buy one and develop this defensive driving technique because it makes you a better driver/Alfisti
Pete
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 03:15 PM
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This is also how to stay alive on a motorcycle.
Good point Pete. Still safer than a motorcycle. If you know how to safely ride, how to observe your environment etc, a motorcycle and would commute with a motorcycle then go for it!

Jannes
'64 Giulia 1600 Ti, '66 Giulia Sprint GT Veloce, '70 1750 GTV

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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by VeloceRosso View Post
Good point Pete. Still safer than a motorcycle. If you know how to safely ride, how to observe your environment etc, a bike and would commute with a bike then go for it!
How does one learn to drive defensively when drivers that are texting are the problem and they run red lights?

Mike
1969 GTV 1750
1966 Super
San Diego, CA

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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfa69GTV1750 View Post
How does one learn to drive defensively when drivers that are texting are the problem and they run red lights?
Scan, scan and scan again. You need to actively look for issues, not just stare at the road in front of you. The same process was used to keep Spitfire/P51 pilots alive. They didn't just sit there in the plane, their eyes were constantly scanning the skies. So when you are approaching an intersection, you need to increase your scanning ... but yeah out on the open highway you can tone it down a bit ...

Of course nothing is perfect, but with practice it is amazing how it helps you improve the "feel of the road and it's users".
Pete

'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 04:03 PM
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Back to our regular scheduled program...

Rust is the probably the biggest concern. It will eat your budget alive and then some.

I like the idea of buying one half finished, or one that's finished but the buyer needs money ASAP.

Trim can be difficult but not impossible to find. If a lot of trim is missing, consider passing on the car.

You can peruse the various vendor websites (Centerline/Classic Alfa/Alfaholics/Highwood/Vick Auto/OKP/Alfa-Service, no offense intended if I missed someone) to see what parts are available and how much they cost.

The seats on a 69 will set you back like you wouldn't believe so either skip the 69 model year or make sure it has the correct seats.

Mechanical bits were shared by various models and it's not unusual to find a bigger motor transplanted. The 1750 motor is smooth as silk and pulls well.

The market is hot right now for what you want. It might cool, or it might go higher. Most of the cars don't sell at the top so be patient.

The BB has folks all over the place who can be another set of eyes and ears for you.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Alfa69GTV1750 View Post
How does one learn to drive defensively when drivers that are texting are the problem and they run red lights?
You pick them weaving between lanes or not going when the signals turn green

Alister
1973 105 GTV (Alfa #6 of 19 owned)
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 05:14 PM
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There are also some good books around, like these, that have plenty of pictures of the cars as manufactured:

https://www.alfaholics.com/parts/105...iulia-gt-book/
https://www.amazon.com/Alfa-Romeo-Gi...ct_top?ie=UTF8

Alister
1973 105 GTV (Alfa #6 of 19 owned)
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-03-2019, 01:53 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSk View Post
You raise a good point, and I've just searched this site for a "buyers guide" and failed to find anything to help.

But there is an enormous amount of quality information on this site.

If you are looking at buying a 1750 GTV, I suggest you read 1750GT's restoration thread: https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/gt-...storation.html. Note this is a Series I, American model.
In regards to a Series II, Papajam's (, RIP) refresh of his: https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/car...ng-71-gtv.html

My personal opinion on buying these cars is:
  • Body condition is everything and you need to study 1750GT's thread for how the body work is supposed to look, because once you know where the seams are, etc., it is relatively easy to spot a car that has had body work, and if good or otherwise, and then you know where to start inspecting with a magnet.
  • These cars are now old and were not made well, or to last, so to find one that has not had body work is very rare, so you have to make a decision: buy a professionally, or professional quality restoration, tired original car that is a survivor, or a cheap really rusty once that needs everything. Be VERY careful buying an in-between car because you will pay too much and soon end up doing the same work as that cheap really rusty one.
  • Mechanical condition does not matter at all. These cars are relatively easy to sort out mechanically and you can still buy engines for under $1k, gearboxes and diffs for peanuts ... but you are more likely to find one that is perfect mechanically and stuffed body wise.
  • Trim matters, and because Alfa Romeo trim lasts only single years thanks to water leaks, and lets be honest most Alfisti don't give a toss ... it's the driving experience that matters. But you can now buy retrimming kits ... but getting it right will take patience and will be part of the ownership fun.

If you can, buy a half finished restoration where the body has nearly been done, and done properly but for some reason the enthusiasm has gone ... you then save money and time, and end up winning.
Pete
Thanks, this is quite infomative. I'll read through those threads!

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeloceRosso View Post
Fantastic to hear from a young Alfista!

What is your daily commute like? One concern would be your safety...
My daily commute is not fixed yet, it's currently happening by bus as where I live now it's more convenient than car. But where I plan to live in the future (city of 300,000) it will probably be a 15-minute drive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSk View Post
Scan, scan and scan again. You need to actively look for issues, not just stare at the road in front of you. The same process was used to keep Spitfire/P51 pilots alive. They didn't just sit there in the plane, their eyes were constantly scanning the skies. So when you are approaching an intersection, you need to increase your scanning ... but yeah out on the open highway you can tone it down a bit ...

Of course nothing is perfect, but with practice it is amazing how it helps you improve the "feel of the road and it's users".
Pete
Yep... eyes on the road

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6alfas View Post
Back to our regular scheduled program...

Rust is the probably the biggest concern. It will eat your budget alive and then some.

I like the idea of buying one half finished, or one that's finished but the buyer needs money ASAP.

Trim can be difficult but not impossible to find. If a lot of trim is missing, consider passing on the car.

You can peruse the various vendor websites (Centerline/Classic Alfa/Alfaholics/Highwood/Vick Auto/OKP/Alfa-Service, no offense intended if I missed someone) to see what parts are available and how much they cost.

The seats on a 69 will set you back like you wouldn't believe so either skip the 69 model year or make sure it has the correct seats.

Mechanical bits were shared by various models and it's not unusual to find a bigger motor transplanted. The 1750 motor is smooth as silk and pulls well.

The market is hot right now for what you want. It might cool, or it might go higher. Most of the cars don't sell at the top so be patient.

The BB has folks all over the place who can be another set of eyes and ears for you.
Thanks for the advice. All the knowledge of the world about these cars seems to be in AlfaBB... When I have enough money to buy one, I'll see what my budget (+repairs+maintenance) can stretch to.
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