1st step to EFI on my Nord - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 03:30 AM Thread Starter
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1st step to EFI on my Nord

Itís always been the plan to fit ITBís and fuel injection so now the engine rebuild is near the end Iím starting with the adaption
Trigger wheel fitted to back of pulley, this needed a flat machining on the back leaving a shallow step to locate the trigger wheel which needed machining to match.

I used stainless stud extenders on two of the timing chain cover bolts to mount the crank sensor bracket, all of this can be reversed back to original which is always my plan where possible
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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 07:17 AM
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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 10:22 AM
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Nice!

I'm starting down the same path. What sensor are you using and are you going to use a wasted spark setup, or are you also going to have a cam position sensor?

I haven't decided whether to use an Omex, MegaSquirt or Microsquirt controller. What are you planning on?

Mike
1969 GTV 1750
1966 Super
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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 12:21 PM Thread Starter
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My plan is to go with Emerald (UK firm) for the ecu as they offer a pre programmed ECU and remote access to laptop, I know it’s more money but the electrics are where I’m weak so don’t feel confident with Mega Squirt option
Sensor came from trigger wheels.com a good site for most of the things you will need, I have drilled and tapped the intake manifold just behind the thermostat for the water temp and the filter back plate will be drilled for the air temp sensor, throttle pot came with the ITB’s
Next job is to run a new high pressure fuel line and fit a small tank with fuel pump fitted , I’m making a 12mm spacer ring to fit between fuel sender and tank, the two return fuel lines will fit into this
I will update with photos when I have something worth showing, I’m sure I will be asking a few questions along the way
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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 12:34 PM
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Emerald is a good choice. Have you seen that website where the guy builds an open wheel car with an Alfa V-6? It's a pretty comprehensive write-up and I think he uses an Emerald ECU. http://www.alfadax.com/

What sort of ITB's are you using? I'm thinking about using the SPICA ITB's or maybe a set of throttle bodies from a suzuki GSXR.

I've been working with a SPICA manifold, and if I use the SPICA ITBs, I'll use the original fuel injector ports modified to fit modern electronic fuel injectors.

triggerwheels.com is great. I got mine there and I thought yours looked familiar!
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Mike
1969 GTV 1750
1966 Super
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Last edited by Alfa69GTV1750; 04-22-2019 at 12:39 PM.
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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 04:41 AM Thread Starter
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I bought the TB’s from a shop on eBay they were a good price and now I have my hands on them I’m happy with quality , I have a Spica manifold and bodies they need special long nose injectors to get the end of the nozzle just in the manifold and not easy to fit bellmouths but if your trying to look as stock as possible it’s the way to go, if money is not a concern the Webber DCOE injection is the simplest solution it replaces the carbs with something that looks identical but the injectors are under the top cover so looks completely stock
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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 08:14 PM
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I have an Emerald with my Twin Spark and Spica throttles. I like the interface and it was not too difficult to wire. When you tell them what engine you are using, not only do they send you a base map, but they send you a wiring table. They will also answer your troubleshooting emails. I am very satisfied with Emerald and their support.

For some reason, it seems to be a widely held choice when using throttle bodies. The maps come standard with the rpm vs throttle position. There is a MAP compensation table, but I haven't been able to figure that out yet. I'm just using rpm vs tps. My MAP signal is not very stable even though I've done everything I've learned about damping the vacuum pulses.

If not using throttle bodies, or if your MAP signal is good, you can change the vertical axis to MAP. It is not obvious, it's kind of hidden in the settings somewhere.

I can relay my gotchas when you are ready to start up. Good luck with build and post lots of pictures.

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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 08:53 PM
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Stefano,

How did you attach the Spica throttle bodies to the Twin Spark head?

I haven't made up my mind whether to use Spica throttle bodies or something else.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iachella View Post
I have an Emerald with my Twin Spark and Spica throttles. I like the interface and it was not too difficult to wire. When you tell them what engine you are using, not only do they send you a base map, but they send you a wiring table. They will also answer your troubleshooting emails. I am very satisfied with Emerald and their support.

For some reason, it seems to be a widely held choice when using throttle bodies. The maps come standard with the rpm vs throttle position. There is a MAP compensation table, but I haven't been able to figure that out yet. I'm just using rpm vs tps. My MAP signal is not very stable even though I've done everything I've learned about damping the vacuum pulses.

If not using throttle bodies, or if your MAP signal is good, you can change the vertical axis to MAP. It is not obvious, it's kind of hidden in the settings somewhere.

I can relay my gotchas when you are ready to start up. Good luck with build and post lots of pictures.

Mike
1969 GTV 1750
1966 Super
San Diego, CA

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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 04-30-2019, 09:58 PM
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I used one of Jim Steck's tricks. He welds them to the TS intake manifold.
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 10:51 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iachella View Post
I have an Emerald with my Twin Spark and Spica throttles. I like the interface and it was not too difficult to wire. When you tell them what engine you are using, not only do they send you a base map, but they send you a wiring table. They will also answer your troubleshooting emails. I am very satisfied with Emerald and their support.

For some reason, it seems to be a widely held choice when using throttle bodies. The maps come standard with the rpm vs throttle position. There is a MAP compensation table, but I haven't been able to figure that out yet. I'm just using rpm vs tps. My MAP signal is not very stable even though I've done everything I've learned about damping the vacuum pulses.

If not using throttle bodies, or if your MAP signal is good, you can change the vertical axis to MAP. It is not obvious, it's kind of hidden in the settings somewhere.

I can relay my gotchas when you are ready to start up. Good luck with build and post lots of pictures.
Did you fit a lambda sensor? If yes narrow or wide band?

Dave walker who owns emerald used to write a feature in Car and Car Conversion back in the 90’s he was one of the few who could add EFI to cars never intended to have it, used to convert DCOE to throttle bodies etc before that emerald were cam builders so they know what they are doing

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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-03-2019, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iachella View Post
I used one of Jim Steck's tricks. He welds them to the TS intake manifold.
The SPICA ITBs look like they are bolted onto the manifold, so I'm wondering what exactly do you weld to the manifold?

Did you cut up the original SPICA manifold and weld the portion of it with the SPICA ITB bolt pattern to the manifold?

Mike
1969 GTV 1750
1966 Super
San Diego, CA

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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-03-2019, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
The SPICA ITBs look like they are bolted onto the manifold, so I'm wondering what exactly do you weld to the manifold?

Did you cut up the original SPICA manifold and weld the portion of it with the SPICA ITB bolt pattern to the manifold?
I could have elaborated more. Sorry. I didn't want to deviate too much from the original thread about a Nord EFI. You send him your TS manifold and a Spica manifold. He makes a flange that matches the Spica throttle bodies and welds that to the TS manifold. Then he can bolt the Spica throttle bodies to the plate. He welds a plate for a TPS on the front of the front throttle body. He takes any vacuum ports on your Spica manifold and transfers them over to the TS manifold; brake vacuum etc. He also welds your bell crank to the fuel rail. Everything is intact and you can adjust your throttle cable and throttle bodies exactly the same way as outlined in the Spica adjustment routine.

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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-03-2019, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Did you fit a lambda sensor? If yes narrow or wide band?
Yes, I used a wideband so I could take advantage of the adaptive learning part. Very nice. I used a PLX controller. If you want to do that, take a look at what others have chosen. There was a little problem with the LC controller and Emerald. Maybe he sorted that out by now, though. But pay attention to what brand you decide.

Dave Walker is awesome. He is engaged with you and really know ITBs. Seems to have done most of his work with small 4 cylinders like Caterhams and little Fords. I asked several other engine management suppliers about the twin spark and most of them were unaware of the Alfa TS. It sparks twice simultaneously where as others do a wasted spark. So they all ask if it is wasted spark. I say no and they start fumbling with their words. Seems it takes them by surprise. Dave Walker said "Twin Spark from an Alfa 75? Sure we know that. It'll work. Just select 'Simultaneous Spark' in the ignition settings".

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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-03-2019, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
He welds a plate for a TPS on the front of the front throttle body.
My words here, but you will see the picture has it in the back of the back pair. This picture was from his website. Mine is on the front. I can't remember if he asked me where I wanted it or if he just puts it on the front now. It's been many years now.

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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-20-2019, 01:04 AM Thread Starter
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Not much of an update but this lot turned up last week, ECU, wire harness, coil and fuel regulator
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