To weld or not to weld, that is the question. - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
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post #1 of 106 (permalink) Old 04-02-2019, 12:51 AM Thread Starter
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To weld or not to weld, that is the question.

With due credit to Shakespeare, I face the dilemma of having to choose between cutting open and having to weld the deceptively perfect outer sills to get to the rust left behind by presvious owner, or to liberally spray-in the hidden inner sills and get as much waxoyl vapour into the crevasses as I can and pray that the decision doesn't come back to bite me in a coupe of years or so.
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post #2 of 106 (permalink) Old 04-02-2019, 01:12 AM
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If the sills/rockets look good and car drives well just rust protect.

If rust bubbles appear in the future you will only have added some happy miles to your car, and can then buy all 3 layers and replace.

Maybe buy the replacement panels now if you have the funds and are worried that they will stop making them.

Do not take a good looking and driving Alfa off the road. Restoration costs big $'s and time ...
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post #3 of 106 (permalink) Old 04-02-2019, 02:21 AM
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Fix it!
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post #4 of 106 (permalink) Old 04-02-2019, 04:00 AM
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If the sills/rockets look good and car drives well just rust protect.

If rust bubbles appear in the future you will only have added some happy miles to your car, and can then buy all 3 layers and replace.

Maybe buy the replacement panels now if you have the funds and are worried that they will stop making them.

Do not take a good looking and driving Alfa off the road. Restoration costs big $'s and time ...
Pete
I’d agree. At some point the rust will show its self on the outer sill surface, at that point I’d start replacing metal.
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post #5 of 106 (permalink) Old 04-02-2019, 04:20 AM Thread Starter
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Appreciate the input. My biggest fear is handing over a clean good running GTV to the shop and ending up with a rusty patched-up barn find...

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post #6 of 106 (permalink) Old 04-02-2019, 06:13 AM
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in a 105 that is being driven (Regularly driven!) sheetmetal is almost a consumable, so run it until it starts getting bad. Anything can be fixed but like Pete said, you may well be looking down the barrel of a long and expensive resto job. Are you up for that or do you want to drive the car?

Oh, and do not think for one minute that a so-called "rust free" car will not have hidden horrors like the ones you may or may not have. Drive it!
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post #7 of 106 (permalink) Old 04-02-2019, 07:42 AM
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I'm going through what started as an outer sill replacement, and became and inner & middle sill repair and partial restoration. The more I dig the more rust I find, and I have to find it. You can't weld properly on really rusty panels.

What was a small rust spot that my friend decided to poke with a screwdriver became an infinite, never ending void of sadness and a huge money pit. I'm really glad I know how to weld.

Don't be like me, just drive the **** thing. You will know when it's time to park her, then it is on to the rotisserie.
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post #8 of 106 (permalink) Old 04-02-2019, 09:00 AM
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If the Outer sills are showing no rust, and the door seams are straight, use Wurth cavity wax, if it is an occasional driver and stored in a proper garage (concrete floor) you will be driving it for a very long time. https://www.wurthusa.com/Chemical-Pr...y-Wax/c/141601
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post #9 of 106 (permalink) Old 04-02-2019, 09:40 AM
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Drive the car until you're ready to leave it for a few weeks to repair the rust.

If you think that it's time on the rockers, there will also be the middle and inner rockers as well, obligatorily ...

So in the meantime, drive this great car and enjoy the beautiful roads of the country.

For example, a high rise from the Dead Sea to Mount Nebo !!! I really like to do it in Alfa. The sound... the turns of the road...
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post #10 of 106 (permalink) Old 04-02-2019, 10:36 AM
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Samer, there are a number of places that typically rust on these cars. If you look through that many different GTV restoration threads, you should be able to see what I mean. The most important things is that the frame rails (or inner rockers as some call them) are structurally sound. Some folks test the structural integrity of the frame rails by taking a screw driver and trying to puncture the frame rail from under the car. The motion that is used would be much like trying to stab someone with a knife. Just saying.

Something that could help you is a cell phone endoscope. They are relatively cheap and easy to use. Amazon has a great selection of them.
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post #11 of 106 (permalink) Old 04-02-2019, 11:34 AM
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I'm not sure how spraying Waxoyl can come back to bite you. Best case you buy yourself a whole bunch of time. Worst case it starts to bubble anyway and then you fix it.

If you look for rust on nearly any GTV you'll find it.
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post #12 of 106 (permalink) Old 04-02-2019, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gubi View Post
I'm not sure how spraying Waxoyl can come back to bite you. Best case you buy yourself a whole bunch of time. Worst case it starts to bubble anyway and then you fix it.

If you look for rust on nearly any GTV you'll find it.
My limited experience has been on the mid 80 restos if the inner sill was sound and middle sill funcky the body guys would weld the outer sills and that was it. No so now with the value of the cars. That is why I mentioned if the door seams are straight and the rocker is as the author states, (and its not a daily driver) the Waxoyl will greatly slow down any further deterioration. If he can jack the car up on all 4 jack points ,one at a time and the doors open and close the structure is sound.
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post #13 of 106 (permalink) Old 04-02-2019, 01:55 PM
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If you are not going to dig in there and cut and weld with new metal, at least use a rust converter chemical first before using anything like the wax based stuff. You want to convert that rusted metal to something inert before covering, otherwise you are just covering up future trouble.
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post #14 of 106 (permalink) Old 04-02-2019, 02:07 PM
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I wouldn't try to use chemical rust converter in an enclosed space like a sill. It's not like converting the rust adds any strength back anyway.

If you coat any rust liberally with wax that'll seal out moisture and oxygen and delay further degradation. That's the best you can hope for at this point.
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post #15 of 106 (permalink) Old 04-02-2019, 06:07 PM
Del
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You know of course that oxygen and water can migrate slowly through these wax coatings, esp if not applied thoroughly. I've read that the standard practice in auto repair shops should be to first chemically convert the rust to an inert and protective coating which prevents any more corrosion in the affected surface, ie, "treat the inside of the panel and any remaining rust with rust converter". The conversion chemicals do not create noxious/hazardous odors.

Lol, wax doesn't add any strength back either.

However, use whatever makes you comfortable. Such a nice and valuable car, if it was my car...I think I would get it fixed properly from the get go.
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