Thoughts on a long wheelbase 105/115? - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums
 2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-24-2019, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Georgia, United States
Posts: 8
Thoughts on a long wheelbase 105/115?

So I found myself browsing photos of this beautiful car, along other classics. I started wondering about what a contemporary, higher-end true grand tourer would look like. Because the Bertone styling is so gorgeous, I wouldn't really want to mess with that, just make it longer to accept a straight six or v12 under the hood. And so, I went and grabbed an image of the car from the side and worked my quite terrible GIMP skills upon it. (attached are both the original image and the lengthened version) I decided to stretch it just behind the front wheel arch and just in front of the windshield cowl, because in order to modify an existing car cutting there would make shaping the new metal easiest. My theory is that with a rust repair panel from alfaholics, it would be possible to fill the gap with little actual shaping. With some body filler to smooth the body lines, all that needs doing is extending the hood.

If I were to actually do this, I'd pick up a shell that's nearly gone to rust anyways, I'd feel bad about cutting up a perfectly good body otherwise. Considering I want to space-frame the front and build a new trans tunnel and floor (for an S2000 transmission, if I'm using a new engine might as well get the best trans I can) I don't mind dealing with a bit of rust - especially because to do this properly I need to go down to bare metal anyways. Regardless, I would weld levels onto both sides of the cut so to make aligning it afterwards much easier.

The biggest question I have, really, is do any of your think this looks good? And, if the length looks good, do the front wheel arches now look a tad too far forward? Should they move an inch backwards? If so, that complicates the whole project massively and I'd likely end up with a fiberglass or carbon front clip instead of just adding sheet metal.

So, thoughts? Other than this being blasphemous, though. Trust me, I know that already.
Attached Images
  
CarolKarine is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-24-2019, 03:08 PM
Senior Member
Platinum Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 278
Doesn't do it for me BUT if you want to press forward, why not get a plastic model kit and start whacking;
This would give you a lot better idea of what may be possible
all the best.
Chuck
f4driver is offline  
post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-24-2019, 03:15 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Georgia, United States
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by f4driver View Post
Doesn't do it for me BUT if you want to press forward, why not get a plastic model kit and start whacking;
This would give you a lot better idea of what may be possible
all the best.
Chuck
That's a good idea. I can get two and use one as if it were the repair panels. Maybe a third for comparisons sake
CarolKarine is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-24-2019, 04:07 PM
PSk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga New Zealand
Posts: 11,293
Send a message via AIM to PSk Send a message via Yahoo to PSk
Spaceframe with fiberglass body, otherwise we'll track you down for a beating 😉

Dont make her heavy though, will ruin the point of a 105 series. I'd rather put a 164 running gear in the back seat, than some heavy v12 and ugly long wheel base mod.
Pete

'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
156 Series 1 v6 ... and remember it's all just opinions
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSk is online now  
post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-24-2019, 04:29 PM
Registered User
 
r-mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,297
Bertone already had a whack at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa_Romeo_2600
JCDK likes this.

'73 GTV bare metal project... nearing 'car' status
E30 Daily - '65 912 project... no longer in waiting
r-mm is offline  
post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-24-2019, 10:33 PM
Del
Senior Member
Gold Subscriber
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: seattle
Posts: 15,091
The Sprint GT/GTV design wouldn't look properly balanced, with that abnormally long hood. The overall design of the 2600 does do a better job of allowing the slightly longer hood.

Del

Seattle

1989 Milano, Shankle Sport
1991 164S, stock
1994 164LS (~Q)
1972 Morgan 27

previously owned since 1964:

62 Morris MiniMinor 850, 67 Austin 1275 Cooper S (Downton 3/4 race), 64 Giulia Sprint GT (1st red one made), 72 Fiat 128 Sedan, 75 Alfetta Sedan, 78 Alfetta Sedan, 78 GTV, 81 GTV6, 86 GTV6
Del is online now  
post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-24-2019, 11:47 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Georgia, United States
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by r-mm View Post
Bertone already had a whack at this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfa_Romeo_2600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del View Post
The Sprint GT/GTV design wouldn't look properly balanced, with that abnormally long hood. The overall design of the 2600 does do a better job of allowing the slightly longer hood.
I feel like the 2600 isn't as svelt as a long 105 could be. The rear of the greenhouse seems to extend too far back in order to accommodate the extra legroom in the rear (even in the Sprint)
CarolKarine is offline  
post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-24-2019, 11:59 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Georgia, United States
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSk View Post
Spaceframe with fiberglass body, otherwise we'll track you down for a beating 😉

Dont make her heavy though, will ruin the point of a 105 series. I'd rather put a 164 running gear in the back seat, than some heavy v12 and ugly long wheel base mod.
Pete
What I needed to do is get my hands on a decent 3d model and stretch it appropriately, so that I can better visualize the extra length.

Although trust me, a space-frame is definitely the plan for this. The question is would I just replace the entire front end or keep the sheet metal skin.

And it should be said, I'm not sure about this project at all. I'll trying to figure out if I want to do it at all
CarolKarine is offline  
post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-25-2019, 12:18 AM
PSk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga New Zealand
Posts: 11,293
Send a message via AIM to PSk Send a message via Yahoo to PSk
Due to the gentle curve along the sides of these cars, stretching one would result in an abomination. These cars are 3 dimensional
Pete
Del likes this.

'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
156 Series 1 v6 ... and remember it's all just opinions
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSk is online now  
post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-25-2019, 03:12 AM
Registered User
 
GTV-074's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia.
Posts: 386
Have look at this thread (some one has already thought of it!!), a Stretched GTV! ,

https://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/pic...da-shorta.html

The white elongated coupe at the end reminds me of the 'photo shopped' blue 105 GTV done up as a 'shooting brake' too .... its out on the net some where....

Cheers,

Paul.

'74 2000 GTV - Robinia Metallizzato, '73 1.3 Giulia Super - Giallo Prototipo, '68 1750 S1 Berlina - Verde Oliva Metallizzato
GTV-074 is offline  
post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-25-2019, 03:18 AM
Registered User
 
GTV-074's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Melbourne, Australia.
Posts: 386
P.S. Here it is - found a pic of the blue concoction.....
Attached Images
 

'74 2000 GTV - Robinia Metallizzato, '73 1.3 Giulia Super - Giallo Prototipo, '68 1750 S1 Berlina - Verde Oliva Metallizzato
GTV-074 is offline  
post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-25-2019, 04:11 AM
Registered User
 
spydaman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Brisbane Qld. Aust.
Posts: 679
Garage
You cannot improve on perfection .............I think I'll just say that again YOU CANNOT IMPROVE ON PERFECTION..............
Attached Images
 

Current cars 1975 spyder under resto, 1973 Berlina Resto 1976 Berlina parts car 1972 GTjunior fully restored, 1 complete rolling shell spyder.exit 1989 75 T/S sold
spydaman is offline  
post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-25-2019, 11:14 AM
Registered User
 
Ranz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Hobart Tasmania
Posts: 1,035
Look at an XJ6, or XJC
Ranz is online now  
post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-25-2019, 11:39 AM
Registered User
 
r-mm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,297
In my many years as a designer I can strongly recommend a benchmarking phase to any undertaking.

You are designing a skyscraper? Look at ten and see what you like, what you are aiming for. Symmetrical, asymmetrical, stepped back, shaft like, horizontally banded, vertically banded, monolithic etc etc. Pick a beautiful coupe that has been "stretched" that you have seen in person and use it as your go-by. If you come up with approximately zero examples you have two choices:
1. cancel project.
2. understand that your 1000000 hour project will be, and look like, a prototype when you are done. if that's what you want, have at.

Another recommendation is to question the presumptions. Is the goal really to "do a big project" - which I can respect. I like a good project. Or is the goal to make a 'high end gt' sort of like a cruising version of Alfaholics GTAr? If the former, does it absolutely need a straight six (why not V?) or twelve (why not 8?) cylinder motor? If modern high end GTs are your benchmark, cylinder count is going down across the board and packaging is getting more efficient. If the big motor is determined to be a must, are you positive there aren't lots of options that will fit in the stock bay? I'd sooner do surgery to say, the cross member or firewall than I would stretch the exterior envelope of the car.

I spend a decent amount of time idly pondering engine swaps to my E30. I was never attracted by the heavier E36 M3 motors that are so popular but recently a lot of capable people have spent time making late model all alum/magnesium straight sixes swappable with no cutting. To me this is a cool thing - keep the low displacement, torquey, sweet sounding straight six but use the latest and greatest from the same family, adding not just power but lightness and efficiency. With no cutting. That is cool. Same basic idea as the Alfaholics GTAr in fact. Which I presume you have seen? https://www.alfaholics.com/gta-r/

'73 GTV bare metal project... nearing 'car' status
E30 Daily - '65 912 project... no longer in waiting

Last edited by r-mm; 03-25-2019 at 11:48 AM.
r-mm is offline  
post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 03-25-2019, 12:20 PM
PSk
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Tauranga New Zealand
Posts: 11,293
Send a message via AIM to PSk Send a message via Yahoo to PSk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranz View Post
Look at an XJ6, or XJC
Yep. William Lyons already did this for you
Pete

'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
156 Series 1 v6 ... and remember it's all just opinions
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PSk is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Confusion in setting SPICA long rod and reference gap r-mm Carburetors, Fuel Injection & Air Intake 7 02-14-2019 02:56 PM
For fun - 74 GTV vs 73 BMW 2002 (long) Deschodt GT (1963-1977) 24 08-30-2016 07:30 PM
Compare to see why 105/115 so good Andrew Sedan (1962-1977) 19 06-29-2006 06:54 AM
T/A set-up Long Link what is the real LL measurment? series1gtv Carburetors, Fuel Injection & Air Intake 2 01-24-2006 03:01 PM
Want to go to Long Beach GP on Friday FREE? Alfa Girl :-) Motorsports 2 03-24-2005 05:57 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome